Best Amps for 800Ds

[Dave999]

I am finalizing my choice for amps for B & W 800ds. I am looking at the Classe CAM 400, the Pass Labs 300.5 and the McIntosh 500 w per channel amps. Any thoughts from any of you who have these as to which are the best? Thanks.

[RebelMan]

Welcome to the club Dave.

My short answer would be all of the above.

I have auditioned the Pass Labs with TAD loudspeakers and the McIntosh with McIntosh loudspeakers but to date neither with B&W so my feedback on sound quality is limited but either will drive the 800D without any problems.

I use a pair of Classe' CA-M400 to drive my 800D and contrary to some misguided opinions have the guts and the finesse to drive them at very high SPL with no lack in bass output nor any high frequency distortion that I can tell. These remarks are backed with SPL tests I conducted not so long ago using two-channel stereo and multi-channel cinema sources.

In the case of two channel stereo sources, I easily drove my 800D to 107dB (@ -5dB unity gain) continuous output at my seated position, 12 feet away, for 20 minutes straight using heavy percussive soundtracks and neither the 800D nor the CA-M400 flinched in the process (ears were protected).

With respect to multi-channel cinema sources, I piped all LFE and low/sub frequency signals through my CA-M400s and 800D which gave new meaning to the phrase aftershock. My house was more at risk to the shattering explosive power that came through my system than the system itself ever was.

Anyone who thinks the CA-M400 is intimidated of prodigious low octave output and/or squelshes treble in the process does not really know the CA-M400.

[sikoniko]

out of curiosity, what do you plan for a pre? I know some people like to mix and match brands, but I prefer to stay with the same brand if possible.

[Audiophiliac]

B&W used the Classe amps, and likely the CA-M400s in the design and voicing of the D series. So they ought to sound the way B&W intended them to sound with those amps. Obviously, not everyone has the same musical taste, and might prefer some other amp. But I would at least give the Classe a try.

[jericho]

I drive my 800D's with McIntosh but I use the 1201's (1200 watt) and use the 4 Ohm tap.As told before I would have chosen Classé as second choice, it's only a matter of looks and taste, because those CAM-400 blocks are as good as McIntosh to drive those speakers.
I would say welcome to the 800D club :T

[misterdoggy]

2 cents.

I have and happy with the X250.5 driving the 802D's. Nice sound combo.

I have ordered the MC501's, not so much because ~I didn't like the sound which I think is great, I just don't like the look of the Pass Labs compared to the McIntosh look.

I have a friend who drives his 800D's with 1201's and 501's and says he likes it better than the Krell 400CX he was using before.

so Pass Labs are great sounding with B&W

But as anyone will tell you in this forum, its not about what is better, because All the Amps you are talking about are great, its a matter of your personal taste.

Which sound do you prefer. (considering as well the other components & accessories work well with 800D's and Brand X Amp)

[SRT-10 Viper]

I have 800Ds and went from Classe CAM/350s to Lamm 1.2 Refs which are only 110 Watts... I will tell you the Lamm beats the Classe hands down.

Thanks for the catch... Long day!

[hifiguymi]

I have 800Ds and went from Classe CAM/350s to Linn 1.2 Refs which are only 110 Watts... I will tell you the Linn beats the Classe hands down.

I belive he means Lamm 1.2's not Linn.

Eric

[DeepEndX]

These are my two cents and I added krells into the picture:

Classe: airy, controlled bass, less detailed, very easy on the ears, very fast transitors (galloping horse)
Mcintosh: similar to classe, very fluid (great for classical, instrumental)
Pass lab: great mid-high, bass is less powerful
Krell (what i use): extremely powerful bass, weaker in the mid range, very bright and detailed = may cause fatigue for some people (great for pop/jazz/r&B/metal) - raging bull

Different people prefer different sound and all the amps that are mentioned above are top notch. My suggestion is do some research on these amps and see what are each strengths and weaknesses before auditioning the amps. When you auditon these amps, you are already fully prepared to know what to listen for from your research; your ears would show you the light!

Good luck!

RH

[Audiophiliac]

These are my two cents and I added krells into the picture:

Classe: airy, controlled bass, less detailed, very easy on the ears, very fast transitors (galloping horse)
Mcintosh: similar to classe, very fluid (great for classical, instrumental)
Pass lab: great mid-high, bass is less powerful
Krell (what i use): extremely powerful bass, weaker in the mid range, very bright and detailed = may cause fatigue for some people (great for pop/jazz/r&B/metal) - raging bull

Different people prefer different sound and all the amps that are mentioned above are top notch. My suggestion is do some research on these amps and see what are each strengths and weaknesses before auditioning the amps. When you auditon these amps, you are already fully prepared to know what to listen for from your research; your ears would show you the light!

Good luck!

RH

You pretty much described the Krell and Classe exactly how I would. I dont have too much experience with Pass or McIntosh amps, so I cant make a detailed description.

But a few years ago, I was comparing a few integrated amps...a Krell, a Classe, and a Musical Fidelity. The Krell had more authority on the low end and was very dark and detailed through the midrange and the high end was just there....not too airy...not too dull...it wasn't exactly fatiguing....but it was a bit more present. The Classe had a liquid smooth top end and a very accurate and crisp midrange and the low end was articulate and very smooth sounding...and it had impact, but just not quite with the presence of the Krell.

The MF seemed to be somewhere in between the Classe and the Krell...I liked it...but the more I listened (over a few weeks/months) with different music, I really preferred the Classe overall.

Either way, you wont be disappointed.

[scanido]

Don't mean to distract too far from the topic, but isn't the characteristics described by these amps more or less a function of the Pre-Amp/Processor?

If i used a mediocre Pre-amp as the front-end to say a Classe amp, would i still see the benefits of airy, controlled bass, less detailed, etc compared to say a Krell attached to the same Pre-amp?

[caleb]

Bryston

I have used a pair of Bryston 7B SST monoblocks for my old 802s and now my 800Ds.

They do a grand job and are reasonably priced - and the 20 year guarantee.

[Glen B]

I have 800Ds and went from Classe CAM/350s to Lamm 1.2 Refs which are only 110 Watts... I will tell you the Lamm beats the Classe hands down.

At $21,690/pr. for the Lamm 1.2 Refs versus $7,000/pr. for the CAM-350s, they should beat the Classé hands down. A fair comparison would have been the Lamms versus Omega monos.

[RebelMan]

Don't mean to distract too far from the topic, but isn't the characteristics described by these amps more or less a function of the Pre-Amp/Processor?

Very much so, yes.

If i used a mediocre Pre-amp as the front-end to say a Classe amp, would i still see the benefits of airy, controlled bass, less detailed, etc compared to say a Krell attached to the same Pre-amp?

Very unlikely. Any mediocre component upstream will mask the full potential of a quality amplifier. Looking at it another way, a quality amplifier will reveal the inadequacies of the piece in front of it.

Next to room acoustics and loudspeakers, the pre/pro predominately owns the audio signal. In theory the purpose of the pre/pro is primarily to serve as the central hub where all signals enter and leave without influence, in other words it should be a completely neutral place for signals to pass. In practice this is hardly the case. Many if not most audiophile grade pre/pro’s are deliberately colored to sound natural and pleasing according to the manufacturer’s interpretation of the terms.

The ideal amplifier, essentially a straight wire with gain, will also stay out of the way as it amplifies the signal. Again this is not usually the case but the vast majority of audiophile grade amplifiers are closer to neutral than their corresponding pre/pro counterparts are and for deliberate reasons. But any deviations from the norm are usually executed (voiced) in support of the front end piece upstream and it is for this (sound quality) reason why pre/pro’s and amps be brand matched where ever possible.

[Iggurk]

If you have no money issue go for a Plinius SA-Ref, it's the best I've evear heard on BW (801D).

I won't recommend you Classe because I don't like the sound these amp produce with BW, tried several times, but definitively not for my ears.

[scanido]

Very much so, yes.

Very unlikely. Any mediocre component upstream will mask the full potential of a quality amplifier. Looking at it another way, a quality amplifier will reveal the inadequacies of the piece in front of it.

Next to room acoustics and loudspeakers, the pre/pro predominately owns the audio signal. In theory the purpose of the pre/pro is primarily to serve as the central hub where all signals enter and leave without influence, in other words it should be a completely neutral place for signals to pass. In practice this is hardly the case. Many if not most audiophile grade pre/pro’s are deliberately colored to sound natural and pleasing according to the manufacturer’s interpretation of the terms.

The ideal amplifier, essentially a straight wire with gain, will also stay out of the way as it amplifies the signal. Again this is not usually the case but the vast majority of audiophile grade amplifiers are closer to neutral than their corresponding pre/pro counterparts are and for deliberate reasons. But any deviations from the norm are usually executed (voiced) in support of the front end piece upstream and it is for this (sound quality) reason why pre/pro’s and amps be brand matched where ever possible.

Thanks for that clarification RebelMan! I wish the stage was set for the newer surround sound formats as I would rather spend the money there considering it makes a larger difference compared to the amplifier. Seeing how the storm hasn't settled yet with HDMI and the newer surround formats one would be wise to focus on the amplifier now than the Pre/Pro.

[SRT-10 Viper]

Glen B; Just to clarify... I wasn't trying to compare AMPS based on price in my post. Many were talking about more power and I was making the comment that 110W Lamm sounded much better than 350W Classe Cams so to illustrate that power isn't always the thing to look at even with 800D B&Ws.

[Gremal]

I'd go with the VAC Phi gear.

[RebelMan]

Viper, did anything else change further upstream in your system or just amplification?

[Dave999]

I currently have an Anthem AVM 20 processor, but am looking to upgrade to possibly a D2 or just wait for the new Classe processor which will add video processing to the SSP 600. I was also thinking of the Meridian G series. Any thoughts?

[jack d]

I currently have an Anthem AVM 20 processor, but am looking to upgrade to possibly a D2 or just wait for the new Classe processor which will add video processing to the SSP 600. I was also thinking of the Meridian G series. Any thoughts?

I've got a Meridian G68 with Mac 501s and 802Ds. Love the sound. The G68 really helped to expand the soundstage and results in a very detailed sound. It takes some time to set up the G68 correctly but it's well worth it once you do.

[Glen B]

Glen B; Just to clarify... I wasn't trying to compare AMPS based on price in my post. Many were talking about more power and I was making the comment that 110W Lamm sounded much better than 350W Classe Cams so to illustrate that power isn't always the thing to look at even with 800D B&Ws.

Okay. I was only trying to point out that you were comparing what IMO were products at entirely different price/performance levels. The LAMMs are probably very conservatively rated, more so than the CAMs.

[sikoniko]

since other brands have been discussed, other than the criteria you gave us, If you are building a 2 channel system, I suggest you demo BAT as well.

[Dave999]

Thanks

Thank everyone for all of your input and opinions.

[SRT-10 Viper]

Lamm 1.2

Rebelman;

I changed to a Meridian 808 CD player a couple months ago as well as an ARC REF3 preamp (upgraded from Levinson 320s)... I had this setup with the CAM/350s for several weeks prior to upgrading to the LAMM 1.2s.

[dschamis]

These are my two cents and I added krells into the picture:

Classe: airy, controlled bass, less detailed, very easy on the ears, very fast transitors (galloping horse)
Mcintosh: similar to classe, very fluid (great for classical, instrumental)
Pass lab: great mid-high, bass is less powerful
Krell (what i use): extremely powerful bass, weaker in the mid range, very bright and detailed = may cause fatigue for some people (great for pop/jazz/r&B/metal) - raging bull

Different people prefer different sound and all the amps that are mentioned above are top notch. My suggestion is do some research on these amps and see what are each strengths and weaknesses before auditioning the amps. When you auditon these amps, you are already fully prepared to know what to listen for from your research; your ears would show you the light!

Good luck!

RH

DeepEndX,

Which Krell amp are you using? I am thinking about the Evo 403 but it has been suggested to me that it isn't powerful enough (hard to believe).

Any thoughts?

David

[DeepEndX]

I have the 750 MCX, the older model with 800D's. Monoblocks are the best to control and drive the speakers compare to stereo amps or multi-channels but it is hard to believe any krell amp's isn't powerful enough especially a whooping 400 watts from the Evo 403. I believe power shouldn't be the issue if you have B&W speakers because B&W speakers are relatively easy to drive. What kind of speakers do you have? I dont' have any experiences with the new EVO lines and with the amount on the line, I think the best way is for you to go to a dealer and test it out. I heard the EVO line has better mid range and treble than the older versions (but still not as smooth as Mac's and Classe) and in the same time tamed the brightness. Good luck and let us know!

[DeepEndX]

I have the 750 MCX, the older model with 800D's. Monoblocks are the best to control and drive the speakers compare to stereo amps or multi-channels but it is hard to believe any krell amp's aren't powerful enough especially a whooping 400 watts from the Evo 403. I believe power shouldn't be the issue if you have B&W speakers because B&W speakers are relatively easy to drive but control in bass, mid range, treble management. What kind of speakers do you have? 800D's? I dont' have any experiences with the new EVO lines and with the amount on the line, I think the best way is for you to go to a dealer and test it out. I heard the EVO line has better mid range and treble than the older versions (but still not as smooth as Mac's and Classe) and in the same time tamed the brightness. Good luck and let us know!

[dschamis]

I have the 750 MCX, the older model with 800D's. Monoblocks are the best to control and drive the speakers compare to stereo amps or multi-channels but it is hard to believe any krell amp's aren't powerful enough especially a whooping 400 watts from the Evo 403. I believe power shouldn't be the issue if you have B&W speakers because B&W speakers are relatively easy to drive but control in bass, mid range, treble management. What kind of speakers do you have? 800D's? I dont' have any experiences with the new EVO lines and with the amount on the line, I think the best way is for you to go to a dealer and test it out. I heard the EVO line has better mid range and treble than the older versions (but still not as smooth as Mac's and Classe) and in the same time tamed the brightness. Good luck and let us know!

I am building a new media room so I am working froma clean slate. I am trying to decide whether to go with the Krell or Classe amps. Which Classe are you comparing the Krell to?

[DeepEndX]

This is the result of my audition between Krell 750mcx and Classe Delta M400 one and a half years ago. Krell will be on the left and Classe on the right:

Music Bright - Music Softer/Soothing
Music Define/Detailed/Crisp/Colder - Music Warm/Airy
Bass Extremely Powerful/Unbelievable - Bass Strong/Crisp
Mid Range ok - Mid Range Airy
Music Tailored to Rock/Hip Hop/R&B - Music for Classical, Jazz, Vocal

I guess it would depends on your taste to choose what amp for your speakers. Both are wonderful amps so it comes down to a matter of taste. Good luck and share with us what you decided on!!!

RH

[dschamis]

I think that I am leaning towards the Krell Evo 403 for my two fronts and the center. I think that 400W into the center is the right move!

[dschamis]

OK - I have since decided to go all out with 3 Krell Evo 600 mono amps for the front 3 speakers. I know that this is way overboard for the center, but I got a decent deal on the amps and think it will kick-ass 100%.

Any thoughts?

[Hoffi]

I´m sure they will :T

Some pics please!!!!!

[misterdoggy]

Nice what is a good deal ?

[akhter]

I currently have an Anthem AVM 20 processor, but am looking to upgrade to possibly a D2 or just wait for the new Classe processor which will add video processing to the SSP 600. I was also thinking of the Meridian G series. Any thoughts?

So are they actually adding HDMI to SSP or are they still touting the DVD player route?

[ShadowZA]

OK - I have since decided to go all out with 3 Krell Evo 600 mono amps for the front 3 speakers. I know that this is way overboard for the center, but I got a decent deal on the amps and think it will kick-ass 100%.

Any thoughts?

;x( ;x( ;x(
:drool:

[Aussie Geoff]

OK - I have since decided to go all out with 3 Krell Evo 600 mono amps for the front 3 speakers. I know that this is way overboard for the center, but I got a decent deal on the amps and think it will kick-ass 100%.

Any thoughts?

You know.... ;x( The best thing about that is now you can also benefit from upgrades to the processor, CD, cables, surround speakers, room accoustics...

The possibilities are limitless

Enjoy!

Geoff

[sikoniko]

So are they actually adding HDMI to SSP or are they still touting the DVD player route?

If you are referring to the classe, there is a thread somewhere in the classe forum about it.

they will add hdmi to the next gen ssp's. They have decided not to add a scaler, as they feel it is redundant, since a lot of displays are coming out with good scalers built in.

[DeepEndX]

OK - I have since decided to go all out with 3 Krell Evo 600 mono amps for the front 3 speakers. I know that this is way overboard for the center, but I got a decent deal on the amps and think it will kick-ass 100%.

Any thoughts?

Have you gotten your system yet? I am dying to hear a review on the evo line with B&W speakers.

RH