B&W 704 or 804 for Denon 3805

[irishwombat]

Hi All
This is my first question on the forum..so go easy


My current set up is
Denon 3805 AV Amp
Denon 3910 DVD player.
Im using an ancient set of Celestion speakers.


My plan is to upgrade the Denon components in the future.

If I was to buy the 804s , will the 3805 be able to drive them
or should i just stick with the 703's ?

thanks
Keith

[style]

Speakers

@irishwombat,

i have the same question in passt and i have decided for my Denon 3805
(dvd 3910&2200) of the B&W 703, htm7 center, and cdm 7NT rear.

I very good solution. :T

I want to buy te Rotel RMB1075 and now i wait the new 1099!? ;x(

If do you want new Denon components in the future ----> Ampli AVC11XV

Kann you this solution: B&W703 and for center HTM4S.
Sorry what for subwoofer do you have in the Head???

thank omar

[Aussie Geoff]

IrishWombat,

Welcome to our forum... Don't worry - we are gentle people...

Do you mean the 804S (current model) or the older N802 from 2004 and earlier...

Bottom line - the 804S is more musical and had a greater potential to sound better than the 703... The 804S can be driven by the Denon but to nowhere near its potential (you'd know as soon as you heard it on a better amp... Still with your plans to upgrade this is a perfect time to start the move into separates. When you are ready you could add an amp to the pre-outs on good your Denon with instant improvement etc...

However if you intend to stay with recievers and their integrated amps - IMO you should consider staying with the 703 - they are easier to drive and great for HT

Geoff

[irishwombat]

Thanks Geoff for taking the time to reply
I kinda expected the Denon is not quite enough to drive the 804s (current model)

I would rather start on the upgrade path straight away , as Im unhappy with 2 channel production and plan to move away from integrated receivers.

Im just a tad nervous if I buy the 804s , my system will sound worse than if i bought the 703s ? What do you think I should do ?

Any advise on an upgrade path. Im keen to get much much better 2 channel reproduction from my CDs .
Also Im also in Oz ..Sydney

cheers

[Aussie Geoff]

Irish Wombat,

I am certain that the 804S are a much better long term investment than the 703s and will reward your upgrade path longer... In the very short time (ie while you still have the Denon 3805 on its own) the more revealing and harder to drive nature of the 804S's may show more of the compromises in your current sytem. However I am confident that as soon as you as a separate amp (which was the very path I took) then the advantages of the 804S will be wel worth it...

In terms of a cost effective amp availabe in Australia - consider the Rotel RMB-1077 7 channel digital which retails for $3200 but you can get for well under this... This wiil do wonders for all 5 or 7 channels of your HT. If you only have 5.1 then use the extra 2 channels to bi-amp the 804s. B&W have demoed this amp drving 7 (much harder to drive) 803Ds very well at a number of shows...

Geoff

[Karma]

HI Irish,
Initially, I had my new bedroom HT system fully powered by a Denon 3805. The fronts are 805S's and an HTMS4 for the center. I thought the Denon did very well but the 805S is a relatively easy load.

Later, I upgraded the front channels amp to a Krell KAV 3250 three channel power amp using the preamp outputs from the 3805. Now, the 3805 just drives the DD 5.1 surround speakers (now SCMS's, the equivalent of the 805S but designed for wall mounting) and provides the preamp signals to the Krell.

I think the system does very well. I have never heard the 3805 run out of power either before the Krell upgrade or after. I'm not afraid of high volumes.

Depending on the size of your room and how loud you play your music and movies, I think the Denon MAY do fine. The 3805 certainly offers a reasonable upgrade path. I think it is a nice unit with a ton of features. I have no plans to change it.

Sparky

[irishwombat]

Thank you everyone , youre comments are very appreciated indeed

[rav934]

I have the new 804s and use a Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated amp and A5 CD player. Its an amazing combo......

[SPACEMANRICK]

I have the Denon 3805 and the 804 speakers for my 2 channel setup and the system sounds great. As most B&W listeners know the bass is not overtly powerful but it is crisp and the highs and vocals are amazing. I have however not heard these speakers at my house with any other amplifier so I have no other real world comparison for this set up.

When I bought my system I wanted the best speakers possible because I was told they make the most difference and speakers should last me 10 to 20 years where as the amplifier usually has a shorter life span.

[MarcoJ]

I have a marantz sr8500 and the 804s. I am really happy with this combination. I know a lot of people think the 804s need more "power" but not for me (no more money)...at this moment :-)

[shades]

I have the 804S with a bryston 3bst and the setup does fine with 120wpc measured 151wpc L+R. However i heard it with the 4bsst (300wpc) and the sound was amazing, bass, mids, and highs was handled nicely and all this was run through the rotel RSX1056. Until i can get the bryston 4bsst and pre/pro i'll stay with the 1056 for pre/pro duties.

[BW704]

I have the 704s driven by the 3805. I also wanted to add a power amp as I am convinced by the many threads on this forum that it will help get more of what the 704 is capable of. However, when raised this question to the dealer where I got both the speaker, the Denon and where I intended to buy the power amp, they insisted that the Denon 3805 is more then enough to drive the 704s. When I told him that there are many out there who don't believe that, they said that the people do not have the proper equipment to measure the ability of the 3805 ??!!! They said they had alot of happy customers who used the 3805 to even drive the 804 .

What do you think guys? This dealer is one of those quite reputable where I am (Stockholm), to what extend are they wrong, or right ?

[shades]

BW704,

Not to say your dealer is wrong or right, but the 3805 will push the 704s, just not like a dedicated 2 channel amp. More so, get your dealer to do a demo of the 704s with your 3805 and a rotel rb1080 and you will instantly hear a difference with your own ears. Even more so with higher end equipment.

[dyazdani]

I am certain that the 804S are a much better long term investment than the 703s and will reward your upgrade path longer...

My thoughts exactly...

[BW704]

Thanks Shades. Too bad, the dealer does not have the Rotel and the other which has the Rotel doesn't have any BW speakers. But from reading users opinions, I am quite convinced on the Rotel Rb 1080 and so I plan to just do a plunge. Do you think the improvement is so recognizable that will justify the 1500 USD try ?

[grit]

A few quick points - The Denon will NEVER drive either the 703's or the 804's to their potential, not even close. The first thing you'll notice missing is bass. Then detail and sound stage. That's due to the amp. Denon's 100 wpc are NOT the same as Rotel's 100 wpc. There's a HUGE difference.

Will they sound BAD? No, just not near what they're capable of, and you may feel yer missing bass.

Which is the best investment? Geoff is right. Take it from someone who BOUGHT 703's. I LOVED them, but if I had to do it over again, I'd have gotten 804's, even at the expense of something else. They are a great speaker and offer much better options if you choose to add a center/surround speakers at a later date.

I can't say this enough: get the 804's. You'll keep them for a LONG LONG time. Your next step NEEDS to be an amplifier. After that, you'll have developed an appreciation for your speakers and be able to best decide what to upgrade next.

Good luck and let us know what you do.

PS - Nothing wrong with the 703's. LOVED THEM. Kept them for about 1 year before I had to upgrade, mostly due to the fact that B&W does not have 'matching' surround and a center for the 703's. The 700 line was complete with 704's. The 703's really are in a class by themselves, between the 700's and the 800's.

[tran_tuan_duc]

I have the 704s driven by the 3805. I also wanted to add a power amp as I am convinced by the many threads on this forum that it will help get more of what the 704 is capable of. However, when raised this question to the dealer where I got both the speaker, the Denon and where I intended to buy the power amp, they insisted that the Denon 3805 is more then enough to drive the 704s. When I told him that there are many out there who don't believe that, they said that the people do not have the proper equipment to measure the ability of the 3805 ??!!! They said they had alot of happy customers who used the 3805 to even drive the 804 .

What do you think guys? This dealer is one of those quite reputable where I am (Stockholm), to what extend are they wrong, or right ?

hi, it depends on u guy,many audiophile in vietnam said that b&W speakers are very difficult to drive amp, there more powerful amp the better sound it play,but I don't hesitate to buy a mc intosh,accuphase 407... for example.I want to get the sound experienced from low to high.Now Iam using a denon pma 2000AE to drive with b&w 703s and it sounds ok and i believe that denon pma 2000AE would better than denon avr3805 if drive with B&w 703.
rgds!

[Kobus]

Get the 804.

The 3805 will do FINE with them.

Kobus

[Purple_and_Gold]

Get the 804.

The 3805 will do FINE with them.

Kobus

While the 3805 will drive the 804s, I ran through similar scenario couple months ago and below is my experience

Using a 3805, I upgraded from a pair of DM 580s to 704s + HTM7.

Initially I was very happy with the setup until the 704s were broken in. After that moment, 704s just opened up and literally sang. However, the weak point was the HTM7. It just didn't sound that natural. (On price alone, 7 series of speakers were simply gorgeous and they looked great with our furniture!)

Then I upgraded from the 704s + HTM7 to 804s + HTM3. (Mind you the cost was more than 2X plus.) The HTM3 was many times better than the HTM7. The movie dialog sounded much more natural and lifelike. The difference was immediate.

The sales guy has been telling me that I needed to upgrade the Denon 3805 to 4806 (at the minimum) or 5805. He recommended the RSX-1067 since they don’t sell Denon gear. The problem is I like the Denon due to its abundant supplies of digital inputs.

I read the review of 1077 in the Hi-Fi News so I ordered one. My user experience is more than 85%HT and 15% Music. When I mentioned the 1077, the sales guy initially recommended the 2x1075s over one 1077. He let me borrow a 1075 demo (already broken in) home and compare it with the 1077.

I was blown away the instance I turned on the 1075 using the 3805 as the pre-amp. The musical voices were deeper and more natural. I could hear the singer sang and felt her emotion. That was my second “wow” experience.

I then swapped out the 1075 with the 1077 and popped in the 5th Element DVD. My HT room came alive during the opening scene. That was my third "wow" experience. The Denon 3805 was no simply not in the same league as in the Rotels.

The next few days became much more challenging choosing the 1075 vs. 1077 vs. 1095. (I will save my experience on 1075 vs. 1077 in a different thread).

After a week, I disconnected the Rotels and moved the speaker load back to 3085. When my eleven year old son came home the next day, he asked why my new speaker sounded crappy compare to the day before.

Enough said.

You really do need to ask your dealer to see if you can borrow a demo unit; take it home and listen in your home environment. This is the reason I feel very comfortable paying very close to the MSRP for higher end audio gear. The dealers need the profile margin so you can experiment and get the audio gear that will sound good in your own environment.

In retrospect, I should have tried out the Rotel amps first before upgrading the speakers from 704s to 804s. The difference between the 3085 and the 1075 was instantly recognizable even for my young son. The difference between 704s and 804s was not so pronounced and immediate. Hope this helps.

In terms of dollars and value, I really do believe the Rotel 1075 is one of the best Amps one can buy.

Hope this helps.