best high powered rcvr for XT 4's

[smjc99]

Myfriend is very impressed with the sound of XT4's for music and is considering putting together a 5.1 system with XTC and Xt2's and a 1080P TV. He aslo checked the 800 series and liked the 802D but the high price vs performance is not his cup of tea. His logic was he cannot appreciate the nuances between various spkrs and the XT4's sounded good at high volumes


He listens to 50% music and 50%HT and He is looking for a high powered rcvr with good sonic quality and ability to play louldy cleanly

I recomended him the THX ultra 2 Denon 4806 and also the newer Rotel RSX 1067 ( does not have HDMI ) but not sure if it is a deal breaker

Any suggestions

Thanks

[Nolan B]

Myfriend is very impressed with the sound of XT4's for music and is considering putting together a 5.1 system with XTC and Xt2's and a 1080P TV. He aslo checked the 800 series and liked the 802D but the high price vs performance is not his cup of tea. His logic was he cannot appreciate the nuances between various spkrs and the XT4's sounded good at high volumes


He listens to 50% music and 50%HT and He is looking for a high powered rcvr with good sonic quality and ability to play louldy cleanly

I recomended him the THX ultra 2 Denon 4806 and also the newer Rotel RSX 1067 ( does not have HDMI ) but not sure if it is a deal breaker

Any suggestions

Thanks

I would choose the rotel, becuase for sound quality Rotel is clearly a step above Denon. HDMI in a reciever at this point means nothing to me. Do you know why he would need HDMI in his reciever?

[Audiophiliac]

Rotel or Denon. The newest 4306 and up from Denon are a real improvement over the older higher end models from them. In Pure Direct, they actually sound really really good with 2 channel. They might not deliver as much current as the Rotel receivers, but they still sound damn fine.

So I can recommend both of your provided options. That doesnt help you much haha.

[WI Rotel]

None. I tried a rotel 1067 for mine. It simply did not have the current to drive the XT's to loud levels after a few minutes the rpotection circuits would engage. Knowint that the rotel cant drive them I seriously doubt any other receiver in the market will drive them satisfactorily. Go for separates with at least 150 watts RMS.

[Ade]

None. I tried a rotel 1067 for mine. It simply did not have the current to drive the XT's to loud levels after a few minutes the rpotection circuits would engage. Knowint that the rotel cant drive them I seriously doubt any other receiver in the market will drive them satisfactorily. Go for separates with at least 150 watts RMS.

Hm, maybe you're playing them too loud then?

Or perhaps the rotel doesn't have as good an amp section as people think? The specs are limited and don't look that impressive - 120W when driving 2 channels into 8ohms and no mention of what the power output is with a 4ohm load or less.

The Denon 4306 receiver mentioned by someone earlier has a very hefty amp section and has been rated highly by audioholics.com - 150W when driving 2 channels into 8ohms. With a 4 ohm load that increased to 240W; these figures are above what Denon claim.

I'd be very surprised if the 4306 couldn't drive the Xt4's but even if it couldn't there are other receivers in the Denon range with even larger amp sections that would have no problem driving the XT4's.

NAD kit also looks like it performs very well for the price.

As for the XT4's - I heard these a month of so ago and they sounded awful to me. Extremely harsh and unrefined especially compared to the 700 and 800 series. I've read other people saying that they weren't impressed either so it always surprises me when I see people saying they liked the sound. Takes all sorts I suppose.

[akhter]

Myfriend is very impressed with the sound of XT4's for music and is considering putting together a 5.1 system with XTC and Xt2's and a 1080P TV. He aslo checked the 800 series and liked the 802D but the high price vs performance is not his cup of tea. His logic was he cannot appreciate the nuances between various spkrs and the XT4's sounded good at high volumes


He listens to 50% music and 50%HT and He is looking for a high powered rcvr with good sonic quality and ability to play louldy cleanly

I recomended him the THX ultra 2 Denon 4806 and also the newer Rotel RSX 1067 ( does not have HDMI ) but not sure if it is a deal breaker

Any suggestions

Thanks

Being an Arcam fan, I can recommend the AVR 300 (or 350 if HDMI is a requirement). I have N804 Fronts and an XTC center (Basically an XT4 on its side) and the Arcam drives it wonderfully.

[WI Rotel]

Hm, maybe you're playing them too loud then?

Or perhaps the rotel doesn't have as good an amp section as people think? The specs are limited and don't look that impressive - 120W when driving 2 channels into 8ohms and no mention of what the power output is with a 4ohm load or less.

The Denon 4306 receiver mentioned by someone earlier has a very hefty amp section and has been rated highly by audioholics.com - 150W when driving 2 channels into 8ohms. With a 4 ohm load that increased to 240W; these figures are above what Denon claim.

I'd be very surprised if the 4306 couldn't drive the Xt4's but even if it couldn't there are other receivers in the Denon range with even larger amp sections that would have no problem driving the XT4's.

NAD kit also looks like it performs very well for the price.

As for the XT4's - I heard these a month of so ago and they sounded awful to me. Extremely harsh and unrefined especially compared to the 700 and 800 series. I've read other people saying that they weren't impressed either so it always surprises me when I see people saying they liked the sound. Takes all sorts I suppose.

XT4's are very placement sensitive if you put them close to a wall you are better served if you use the supplied bungs to tame low frequency harshness. If placed at least 3 feet from the wall the bungs are not necessary. They are also really meant to be paired with the PV1 sub, as part of a "system", on their own they are certaintly no match for much larger fine speakers in the lower harmonics (though much better than any slim speaker in the market). There is simply no way to make 2 six inch woofers rival a decent 8 or 12 inch woofer with its accompanying much larger box and air volume. When paired with PV1's, however, the sound is actually superior to all the BW 7 series (of course so is the price).
I originally bought the Rotel on the advice of the dealer since I wanted something more powerful and musical than the denon. I can't deny I enjoy my music loud (I like to "feel" it) but to put it numerically, the receiver couldn't drive the XT4's to sustained 92 dB level without shutting off. Note that the wattage to sound conversion is exponential thus twice the power watts RMS may, in the best of circumnstances, only provide only 20 percent higher listening levels. Beware of claimed reciever power levels usually they will quote only dynamic power at 1 Khz instead of 20-20. When rated as such for example a Rotel RMB 1095 rated at 200watts RMS could be rated at over 400 watts RMS into 8 ohms!
In sum, If your listening space is a small room a receiver may handle it but if you are hoping to use the speakers in a large home theater viewing space, a reciever will definitely not cut it. And, as may come as no surprise separates do sound a lot better than any receiver regardless of price. :W

[Ade]

Why 92dB? That is LOUD. You are deaf then I take it? Or at least you will be soon.

Note that the wattage to sound conversion is exponential thus twice the power watts RMS may, in the best of circumnstances, only provide only 20 percent higher listening levels.

Yes, to double the perceived loudness you need to multiply the wattage required by a factor of 10.

So that makes two of us that can read then.

Beware of claimed reciever power levels usually they will quote only dynamic power at 1 Khz instead of 20-20.

Yes, but that was audioholics I was quoting. If you've never read the articles there then you're missing something.

[WI Rotel]

Why 92dB? That is LOUD. You are deaf then I take it? Or at least you will be soon.


Yes, to double the perceived loudness you need to multiply the wattage required by a factor of 10.

So that makes two of us that can read then.


Yes, but that was audioholics I was quoting. If you've never read the articles there then you're missing something.

92 is with no doubt loud but you don't want your stereo to wimp out playing anything less than 96 dB remember you are not always in the room where the stereo is!
Trust me I'm not downplaying the Denon its simply that the XT4 is a very difficult load to drive, specifically at loud levels and it is better served by powerful amplification. Recievers are about compromise, its impossible to cram everything in one box and expect excellent results. For example just the Rotels transformers in an RMB 1095 weigh more than an entire Denon THX receiver! I'm just worried that a buyer might poopoo a very expensive speaker buy just because he simply lacks the "juice" Just do the math I'm driving the system with 2000 watts RMS, 1000 form the Rotel and 500 from each sub! That is sufficient to drive the entire system to 95 dB in a 4800 sq ft room without any signs of strain. Again you wouldn't listen to music at those levels day in and day out, but some times you do want to listen to back in black how it was intended :twisted: Furthermore, very loud transient passages are what video is all about.

[Ade]

92 is with no doubt loud but you don't want your stereo to wimp out playing anything less than 96 dB remember you are not always in the room where the stereo is!

If you bought a decent receiver you can have multiple zones allowing you to have speakers in other rooms. That'll sound a treat compared to XT4's through a wall even if the second set of speakers are cheap in comparison and you certainly wouldn't have to play so loud.

Trust me I'm not downplaying the Denon its simply that the XT4 is a very difficult load to drive, specifically at loud levels and it is better served by powerful amplification.

Admit it, you're generalizing. You are saying any receiver is just not going to be powerful enough and you haven't even bothered to look up any tests for the 4306 or any other higher end receiver have you? OK, let me make it easy for you - have a look at these test graphs of the 4306: here.

I find is amusing that you've given grief to people in this forum for their audio snobbery in relation to amps of different brands and you seem to be suffering a little from it yourself.

Recievers are about compromise, its impossible to cram everything in one box and expect excellent results. For example just the Rotels transformers in an RMB 1095 weigh more than an entire Denon THX receiver!

No, it's not impossible to "cram" everything inside one box - have you seen the size of some of these boxes for a start? The Denon A1XV weighs in at 44Kg your entire 1094 is 34Kg - and yes, you're going to say that the Denon is a "power amp" but that's a typical Denon misnomer. Take a look at what that box contains and the only difference between it and a receiver is the lack of few chips that make it a radio.

But putting your weight issues aside here for a moment, there is a point at which more power will not make a blind bit of difference. You aren't going to get an infinite improvement by adding an infinite amount of power. The trick is to determine how much you need – of course if you have a bottomless pit full of money you can just dig in and buy the biggest amps money can get you, but unfortunately I don’t so I’d prefer to direct my money where it’ll make the biggest difference.

I'm just worried that a buyer might poopoo a very expensive speaker buy just because he simply lacks the "juice" Just do the math I'm driving the system with 2000 watts RMS, 1000 form the Rotel and 500 from each sub!

No you're not. You say your amps are rated at that (although I wouldn't believe it until I saw independent tests) but my bet is that the majority of the time you are using just a few watts per channel on your main speakers and I'd be surprised if you ever used more than a hundred or so.

That is sufficient to drive the entire system to 95 dB in a 4800 sq ft room without any signs of strain. Again you wouldn't listen to music at those levels day in and day out, but some times you do want to listen to back in black how it was intended :twisted: Furthermore, very loud transient passages are what video is all about.

Yes, but that's what very large capacitors are for.

Look, I'm not saying you can run any speaker loud off of any cheap receiver but people should get over this attitude that all receivers are unable to drive expensive speakers. I'm planning on running 804S off of a 4306 (when they eventually get delivered!) and my guess is that they will be more than fine together. I'm considering adding a pair of 805S as surrounds and then I may have to add additional external amplification. But Rotel is as over priced as all the "big brand" amps and I'll probably go for a 2 channel Nad amp that's rated as 460W into 2ohms, it even has soft clipping and it costs less than a Rotel.

Oh, and one thing you should consider; companies like Denon produce a lot of boxes. Economies of scale will dictate that they can produce an equivalent piece of electronics far cheaper than a smaller outfit like Rotel.

People should also try to remember what an amplifier is - it's a glorified power supply, that's all; it shouldn't add or detract from the sound, it should just add gain to the signal. Why pay enormous amounts of money for that when you can put it towards more music, better speakers and room treatments?