Beryllium vs Diamond

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  • tboooe
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2005
    • 657

    Beryllium vs Diamond

    Yesterday I had the chance to audition the Usher BE-10 speakers (http://www.usheraudio.com/speaker-Be-10.html). For those of you who do not know, these speakers have the beryllium tweeter AND midrange driver. I think they are the first to use beryllium in the midrange. JM Focal uses beryllium in the tweeter also. Anyway, here are my thoughts on the BE-10 compared to the 802d:

    Speakers: Usher BE-10 ($14,300)
    Amp: Accuphase monoblocks (not sure which ones)
    Source: Esoteric universal player
    Speaker cables: Nordost Vahalla
    IC: no idea
    Room size: 16' W x 18' L x 8' H
    Room treatments: 5 GIK bass traps (one behind each speaker, one on the side of each speaker and one on the front wall between the speakers)
    Music: Flamenco, chill/lounge, female vocal jazz, pop

    My first impression of the BE-10 is that they look unbelievable. Obviously they took some styling cues from the Sonus Faber Amanti line with the slighly backward sloping front baffle and horizontal bands of wood that make up the cabinet. The front baffle is also made of a black piano finish, very shiny and durable. Overall these speakers must rank in my book as one of the nicest looking speakers around. To me they are more attractive than the 802d mainly because they look more traditional and opulent.

    Lets first start by comparing the tweeters. The BE-10 tweeters sounded more crisp and "alive". Every guitar pluck of the flamenco muscians were so well defined and amazingly sharp without sounding harsh. The d tweeters to me are more smooth but they lack the quickness of the beryllium tweeters. On more fast paced flamenco tracks, the beryllium tweeters seemed to also respond very quickly, keeping pace without any problems. On guitar passages the beryllium sounded more lifelike to me. Being a guitar player myself, I could see and sense each string pluck. Amazing! The ability of the beryllium tweeter to sound fast and crisp could be due the fact that it is a lighter material than diamond, allowing it to have a faster response time.

    Next the mids. Here is where I prefer the 802d fst driver. Though the BE-10 mids sounded very clear and transparent, to me they also sounded sterile and clinical. The fst driver sounded more natural to me. It recreates the human voice in a way that to me more lifelike while not losing any emotion or timbre. Maybe the fst driver colors the sound but I prefer the slightly warm presentation of the B&W. To some people, the absolute transparency of the BE-10 may be hard to pass up. I found them to be a bit fatiguing.

    Now for the bass. The BE-10 is driven by a single 11" bass driver. We listened to a variety of tracks with slow extended bass notes and quick snapping bass notes. In this area, the BE-10 sounded better than the 802d. The Be-10 bass was tight, crisp, controlled without sounding boomy. The 802d has the tendency to sound a bit boomy to me. But this could be due to the room treatments.

    Finally, overall presentation. The BE-10 casts a very deep soundstage. The sound is actually quite recessed behind the front plane of the speakers. This helps create great dimensionality to the sound but it also has a negative affect. The vocals sounded like the singer was standing further back on the stage than some of the instruments which is not normally how a band sets up. Though the great depth of the soundstage was very easy to fall in love with, at the end of the day I thought it did not sound normal. In this sense, I prefer the slightly forward presentation of the 802d. Vocals are forward while other instruments are furhter back on the stage. The 802d does lack the absolute deep soundstage of the BE-10.

    So what is the verdict? Well as with everything in this whacky audiophile world, it is really up to preference. My Dad really likes the BE-10. I think he likes the crispness of the tweeter and transparency of the mids because it makes music sound livelier to his 60+ year old ears which is not as good as it used to be. Right now, I prefer a smoother, slightly warm and sweet sound. For me the 802d is the right choice. Dont get me wrong, the BE-10 is amazing!! I love the way they look. The beryllium technology is something to be considered. Its attributes of clarity, detail, and speed are fantastic. I like them enough to try and convince my dad and brother to split the cost with me so we can buy a pair for an all analog and tube setup we are thinking of building. I think with tubes, the BE-10 could be a fantastic choice.

    Side note: Not that it matters but the Usher BE-10 are made in Taiwan. I firmly believe audiophile products coming from Asia have to be reckoned with. In this case, cheaper does not mean not as good. I think in the next decade, Asian audiophile products are really going to put pressure on the North American and European manufacturers.
    Last edited by tboooe; 09 July 2006, 21:21 Sunday.
  • CombatWombat
    Member
    • Jul 2006
    • 57

    #2
    Thanks for that never heard of Usher before, Not even sure if that are coming onto Australia?

    Comment

    • EAmin
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2004
      • 282

      #3
      Nice review. I have also heard the BE-10s, several times. First experience was at HE2006, I heard almost everything including the new WP8s, but kept coming back to hear the Ushers (especially the BE-10s). They are a beautiful speaker --- I agree much more pleasant to the eye than the 802D.

      I also got a chance to demo them in a local showroom, listening to all sorts of music from Female Vocals to some acoustic rock (Godsmack, "The Other Side). I listened to them using Conrad Johnson monos, Oracle CD player, I forget what pre --- also Nordost cables. I agree with all of what you've said, but I found much less fatigue factor than with 800 or 802Ds --- maybe because it was less forward as you mentioned.

      I have to do more listening on different amps, but I think this will be my next two-channel upgrade.

      Comment

      • WI Rotel
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2006
        • 657

        #4
        The differences lie within the realm of the digital sonic analyzer. Maybe a bat can tell the difference between both materials, the human ear definitely cannot (I'm an MD I know this as a fact) there are other construction variables in tweeter construction that are vastly more important and sonically audible. Therefore, among high cost diaphragms for high frequency, materials more precious than titanium are just reading material. Perfection beyond what is audible is just an excuse to shaft you and extra 5 thousand dollars. The 802 D's don't sound better because of the diamond tweeter cone there are other design and construction variations that give the tweeter a different character.

        Comment

        • Briz vegas
          Super Senior Member
          • Mar 2005
          • 1199

          #5
          That would explain why a flying fox colony has set up within listening distance to our local B&W dealer. Mind you with the racket they make I have to wonder if they are true audiophiles. :P I am referring to the furry bats, not the B&W dealer.

          B&W will charge what the market will pay.

          In regard to whether we can hear these higher frequencies, I understood that the diamond tweeter was all about a better response below 20,000 hz, not about bat type frequencies above it. Mind you the person who probably benefits most is the young kids of 800 D owners. I wonder how much high frequency hearing is lost by the time we reach adulthood due to our noisy environment. Try listening to speaker test tones above 16,000hz and see how your ears perform. I wonder if B&W do a line in hearing aids
          Mac 8gb SSD Audirvana ->Weiss INT202 firewire interface ->Naim DAC & XPS2 DR->Conrad Johnson CT5 & LP70S-> Vivid B1s. Nordost Valhalla cables & resonance management. (Still waiting for Paul Hynes PS:M)
          Siamese :evil: :twisted:

          Comment

          • WI Rotel
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2006
            • 657

            #6
            Originally posted by Briz vegas
            That would explain why a flying fox colony has set up within listening distance to our local B&W dealer. Mind you with the racket they make I have to wonder if they are true audiophiles. :P I am referring to the furry bats, not the B&W dealer.

            B&W will charge what the market will pay.

            In regard to whether we can hear these higher frequencies, I understood that the diamond tweeter was all about a better response below 20,000 hz, not about bat type frequencies above it. Mind you the person who probably benefits most is the young kids of 800 D owners. I wonder how much high frequency hearing is lost by the time we reach adulthood due to our noisy environment. Try listening to speaker test tones above 16,000hz and see how your ears perform. I wonder if B&W do a line in hearing aids
            :B :B :B
            Those are some big bats!

            Tweeter material has always been an object of bragging rights to manufacturers. The truth is that there is much more to it than
            just what its made of. Personally the best tweeters Iv'e ever heard were HEIL type devices, but even with this physically optimal device speakers that had them ranged from sublime to crap. I know of silk tweeters that rival BW's diamond tweeters as high frequency transducers, thus forget about the material and get down to listening. Only that is the true measure of sonic performance. Furthermore although experts may find middle ground on what is trully bad on what is trully good personal prefference is trump!

            Just my opinion, but all BW Nautilus tweeters sound pretty darned good.

            Comment

            • chuck1801
              Member
              • Feb 2006
              • 46

              #7
              Shine on you crazy diamond. Diamonds are forever. I don't know of any good songs or movie titles about beryllium. So Diamond wins.

              I have a pair of JMLab Micro Utopia Be in a 2 channel system and 3x802D in the main multi-channel system. Both are terrific speakers. I like the 802Ds better but that is because they are great full range speakers. As to which tweeter is better, I can't say, both seem outstanding.

              Comment

              • VictorHRS
                Member
                • Apr 2005
                • 79

                #8
                Originally posted by chuck1801
                Shine on you crazy diamond. Diamonds are forever. I don't know of any good songs or movie titles about beryllium. So Diamond wins.
                Good point! :lol:

                Comment

                • james_dmi
                  Member
                  • Jan 2005
                  • 85

                  #9
                  I prefer the diamond over beryllium. To my ears the beryllium seemed a bit harsh without actually having any extra detail and was not as well integrated. This was based on listening to the JMLab Diva Utopia Be and B&W 802Ds with the same equipment. I'm 31 and I can hear test tones above 16Khz clearly so maybe when I get older I may start to prefer the beryllium sound, but for now its diamonds all the way for me.
                  James

                  Comment

                  • Russ L
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2006
                    • 544

                    #10
                    apparently the diamond tweeter only starts to breakup at the highest audible frequency range wheras others distort at much lower frequencies. Russ
                    Russ

                    Comment

                    • Russ L
                      Senior Member
                      • Jul 2006
                      • 544

                      #11
                      I got B&Ws free dvd on the 800 series so I'm completely brainwashed...uh I mean informed:W Russ
                      Russ

                      Comment

                      • sikoniko
                        Super Senior Member
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 2299

                        #12
                        I thought it was interesting that the b&w documentation says that their research supports the aluminum ( or some metallic form ) speaker like what is used in the nautilus prestige, but marketing pushed for them to continue using the kevlar.
                        I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

                        Comment

                        • KenK
                          Member
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 38

                          #13
                          Originally posted by tboooe
                          The d tweeters to me are more smooth but they lack the quickness of the beryllium tweeters.
                          Nice review. I guess this explain why I was not impressed by the 803D. I had high hope when I visited my local B&W dealer last week. The mid is great and fit my taste, not as fast and accurate as some of the metal driver but sound good to me. The bass was ok but less then what I was expecting from three cones. The biggest disappointment was the D tweeter. It was smooth but does not sound "real" (IMO). Overall I really like the vocal presentation of the speaker but did not move forward due to the D tweeter.

                          Comment

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