Krell 400Xi Integrated for 802D? Your thoughts please.

[theMaximus]

I just got my pair of 802D from a local dealer who used them as his demos for about 6 months or so. I had Rotel RSX-1056 (used as preamp) + RB-1070 to drive my 704s before, and need to get a new power amp and preamp in the near future.

I'm strongly considering Krell 400Xi integrated amp (200W X 2 at 8 ohms and 400W X 2 at 4 ohms) . Although I'm sure it will be a significant improvement over Rotel RB-1070 (130W X 2), I'm just wondering if 200W Krell amp would be powerful enough for 802Ds.

[chuck1801]

I have a Krell 400xi that I use in my office and had it powering my 802Ds for a couple of weeks. Is it powerful enough? Absolutely, and it sounds really good, especially if you have a CDP that can take advantage of the Krell's XLR inputs. The 802Ds need a very good amp to control the bass from the two 8" Rohacell drivers. The Krell 400xi had no problem -- way better than a Sunfire Ultimate Receiver and an Anthem MCA-20 amp, both of which are 200W/channel but were boomy on certain tracks.

[DL86]

Give the rotel RB-1090 a try. I have heard from many it is a step up from the Krell 400-xi. I have the rb-1090 driving a pair of paradigm studio 100v3's and the bass control is extremely good considering it has 3 x 7 inch bass drivers per speaker. I'm sure the rb-1090 will provide the control needed for the 802D's with a damping factor of 1000!. I have also had an extensive listening session with the 400-xi with audio physics's virgo III speakers with a shanling cd-t80 cd player and it sounded very good although I don't beleive it had the same control on the bass as my 1090 does nor could it reach the listening levels without falling apart however, very nice sound possibly due the virgo III's being a step up from my paradigm's and also the preamp stage is much better than what I have, dynamic and punchy a good way to describe and a 3 dimensional sound stage. I would recommend giving the rb-1090 and a rc-1090 pre-amplifier a try if you can still find one around.

Cheers, David

[kurtholz]

I use a Krell HTS 5 channel bi-amping the 802d's, i had a Rotel 1095 doing the same, the Krell is a significant upgrade in my opinion, Rotel didnt come close to producing potential of the 802D'

good luck

Kurt

[theMaximus]

When I used Rotel RB-1070 with 704s, I loved the detail and dynamic sounds, but at times my set-up seemed to sound a little too bright. I suspected it was the amp, since a lot of people describe 704s as laid back. I purchased a B&K ST2140 on eBay to see if it could cure the brightness. B&K made my system a lot mellower, but I felt like I was loosing some detail and sparkle.

I know that RB-1090 would be in a different league than RB-1070, but I am worried that it may have some similar characteristics as RB-1070. I'm still considering other options such as Primare or Aragon, but as of now, Krell 400Xi seems to fit my needs well. The fact that it has a massive transformer and able to exactly double its output from 200W @ 8 ohms to 400W @ 4 ohms tells me that it really must put out high quality output.

[Joey_V]

If anything, the Krell would be brighter than the Rotel 1070 by far. The 1070 has a rounded off top end, mostly due to lack of power with the speakers I'm using atleast, dips to 1ohm (Summits). The 1090 that I have now, after extensive A/B comparisons with the 1070 that also owned, is a completely different animal.

[alebonau]

I demoed the krell kav 400 integrated a fair old while ago with my mains. I reckon it woudl kill the rotel and have it for breakfast !

I found the krell had a little full on, take no prisoners kind of sound, alternatively have you considered the musical fidelity A5 integrated

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/a5/a5int.html

Or better still the musical fidelity A5cr pre-pwr

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/a5/a5pre.html

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/a5/a5pow.html

best to demo what ever you have in mind. And depends on the budget and the kind of soundy our lookign for but you can make some real gains in clarity and detail over the rotel in my opinion with the beaut speaker you have.

[norpus]

I use a Krell HTS 5 channel bi-amping the 802d's, i had a Rotel 1095 doing the same, the Krell is a significant upgrade in my opinion, Rotel didnt come close to producing potential of the 802D'

good luck

Kurt

Mmm Kurt, did you find biamping helped much, given your Krell single amped would also be pretty grunty?

Anyone know what the 802d impedance would be if biamping? Nominal is 8 ohms wired for single amp - when splitting into bass and mid/treble with biamping, would it be seen as higher or lower than 8ohms for each of the amps? ie series or parallel or neither?

PS I biamp my 802d also, but wanting to understand better what load my 4 amp channels will be doing. Thanks in advance

[chuck1801]

Looks like I'm the only one to have actually paired the 400xi with 802Ds. I have to agree with alebonau, it would kill the Rotel and have it for breakfast. I demoed the 400xi with the 802Ds for a week before I ordered one. On another forum someone asked what is the best $15K speaker/amp/preamp combo. IMO the answer is the 802D/400xi. Add an Ayre C-5xe, decent cables and you're done.

[kurtholz]

I tried the Krell just bi-wiring, but didn't notice much improvement over my KAV 3250 which i was using for my mains at the time, which i would put in the same league as the Krell 400xi, ( i could be wrong), when i upgraded to the Krell HTS 5 channel and bi-amped the 802d's, it was a big difference in quality of sound, now a big big difference is to remove the grills from the tweeters, you will be amazed

i can only speak for my system, but i am blown away with the sound of the Krell and B & W sound, but i have done extensive tweaking, as the Krell showcase has many options other processors don't

i use an Arcam dv29 as a CD/DVD player, i highly recommend it, also use the Benchmark dac, it does make a very small improvement on CD playback,but hey, that's what we live for

:-)

good luck

Kurt

[norpus]

I tried the Krell just bi-wiring, but didn't notice much improvement over my KAV 3250 which i was using for my mains at the time, which i would put in the same league as the Krell 400xi, ( i could be wrong), when i upgraded to the Krell HTS 5 channel and bi-amped the 802d's, it was a big difference in quality of sound, now a big big difference is to remove the grills from the tweeters, you will be amazed

i can only speak for my system, but i am blown away with the sound of the Krell and B & W sound, but i have done extensive tweaking, as the Krell showcase has many options other processors don't

i use an Arcam dv29 as a CD/DVD player, i highly recommend it, also use the Benchmark dac, it does make a very small improvement on CD playback,but hey, that's what we live for

:-)

good luck

Kurt

Thanks Kurt
I am also using the benchmark dac1
I will try your tweak of removing the diamond's protector grill next time I am listening critically (interstate currently) and see if I can pick any diff also

[theMaximus]

I picked up the Krell along with Marantz SA-15 S1 two channel SACD player,
and I must say I'm in heaven. I wanted to find a SACD player with balanced
output so that I could take advantage of balanced input of Krell, but I
couldn't find one. Marantz SA-11 fits the bill, but my wife insisted everything
has to be silver ( I was just glad she let me buy the 802Ds and wasn't going
to argue about how silly she is being over color). I was seriously considering
Primare CD player, but I have over 50 SACDs and didn't want to give them up.

Krell KAV-400Xi drives 802D with more authority and precision than Rotel RB-1070,
but the difference wasn't as big as I thought on many recordings. Sound of
pianos made the most noticeable improvements with timbre and transparency,
and fast tempoed strings like violin from Vivaldi's Four Seasons seemed to time
a lot more accurately.

I'm sure Rotel RB-1090 would have been a good choice too, but I really
wanted to get the simplicity of integrated amp as long as it wouldn't
give up too much quality against that of separate pre/power amps. KAV-400Xi
just seemed to make sense for the set-up I had in mind. It does, however,
gets pretty hot after listening to it for more than 30 minutes, but I guess
a compact Class A amp with aluminum housing would get pretty hot.

[chuck1801]

FYI The Krell SACD Standard comes in silver and would match the 400xi. Also would be operated by the same remote. The Ayre C-5xe plays all formats and comes in silver. Both units of course feature balanced outputs and superb sound.

Anyway, glad to hear you are enjoying the Krell/Marantz/802D combination.

[Joey_V]

I picked up the Krell along with Marantz SA-15 S1 two channel SACD player,
and I must say I'm in heaven. I wanted to find a SACD player with balanced
output so that I could take advantage of balanced input of Krell, but I
couldn't find one. Marantz SA-11 fits the bill, but my wife insisted everything
has to be silver ( I was just glad she let me buy the 802Ds and wasn't going
to argue about how silly she is being over color). I was seriously considering
Primare CD player, but I have over 50 SACDs and didn't want to give them up.

Krell KAV-400Xi drives 802D with more authority and precision than Rotel RB-1070,
but the difference wasn't as big as I thought on many recordings. Sound of
pianos made the most noticeable improvements with timbre and transparency,
and fast tempoed strings like violin from Vivaldi's Four Seasons seemed to time
a lot more accurately.

I'm sure Rotel RB-1090 would have been a good choice too, but I really
wanted to get the simplicity of integrated amp as long as it wouldn't
give up too much quality against that of separate pre/power amps. KAV-400Xi
just seemed to make sense for the set-up I had in mind. It does, however,
gets pretty hot after listening to it for more than 30 minutes, but I guess
a compact Class A amp with aluminum housing would get pretty hot.

It's not Class A.

[chuck1801]

It's not Class A.

Yes, it is. Krellonline.com says so.

[Joey_V]

Yes, it is. Krellonline.com says so.

No it's not. Class A prestage only. Not Class A all the way...

Do you honestly think they can fit a full Class A amp in a chassis that small?

[MoonSpin]

Curiosity got the better of me, when I took the Krell KAV-400Xi home and A/B against my Rotel RB-1090, the Rotel RB-1090 walked all over the Krell KAV-400Xi and left it for dirt and I mean left it, no way does the Krell KAV-400Xi even come close to the Rotel RB-1090! The inside build quality of the Krell doesn't even come close to the RB-1090, no way can it deliver the goods the RB-1090 does, I'm still keeping my RB-1090. I LOVE the sound of the RB-1090, it's so smoooooth and musical.

[miner]

I have to chime in here - I AB'd at my home a Rotel RB-1092/RC-1090 vs a Krell 400xi (friend brought his over). Glad I had the Rotel combo. The Krell is impressive for its size but was so bright it almost was painfull (speakers are B&W N804 & ASW800 sub).

[theMaximus]

I have to chime in here - I AB'd at my home a Rotel RB-1092/RC-1090 vs a Krell 400xi (friend brought his over). Glad I had the Rotel combo. The Krell is impressive for its size but was so bright it almost was painfull (spoeakers are B&W N804 & ASW800 sub).

I chose Krell 400Xi because I liked the simplicity of an integrated amp and also because I really liked how it sounded with my 802D. I guess I cound have used my Rotel 1056 receiver as a preamp for RB-1092, but I'm sure that as a fine receiver as 1056 is, I wouldn't think it would match the performance of a dedicated preamp such as RC-1090 or RC-1068.

When I compared RB-1070 with Krell, I felt like RB-1070 sounded quiet a bit brighter than Krell. I am sure RB-1092 and RB-1070 would sound different, I just really liked the simplicity and neutrality of Krell with my 802Ds. In the past, I had a chance to compare my Rotel amp with B&K amp, Rotel always seemed to sound a little more exciting at first but begin to sound a little too bright for me after a while. I guess that just proves everyone hears differently.

Ultimately, the most important factor for me was the fact that Krell was the only integrated amp that offered the power rating that I was looking for. According to other 802D owners, 802Ds seemed to perform better with somewhere around 200 watts, and Krell was the only int. amp which offers that kind of juice (power doubles to 400 watts @4 ohm load, which shows it offers a high current power). After auditioning, I was pretty much sold on the Krell.