Tubes+B&W

[mselescu]

Hello B&W fans.

I am new to the forum(but i read all for 2 months) and i love 2 chanel sound.

My system:

-B&W 703, bi-wiring with cables Wireworld Equinox 5 and Oehlbach Silver,

-pick-up Clearaudio Champion, arm RB250ST, MC Madrigal, step-up AT630, cable Clearaudio Sixstream,

-tube pre-phono MC767-RD

-tube cd player Jolida JD100S

-tube pre/power MC34-A

-power Primare A30.2

-interconects Oehlbach XXL, Oehlbach NF14, Audioquest Diamondback.

What is your opinion about tube components + B&W and Primare + B&W?

Thanks for any opinon.

[Karma]

HI,
Not being familiar with the entire galaxy of audio model numbers, are the MC numbers indicating McIntosh equipment? Since they are not the classic McIntosh models they must be relatively new. If so, I am not familiar with them. Are you in love with them? If so, is your question simply rhetorical?

Also, I really object to the way you are asking the question. As you probably know, not all tube equipment is created equal. You should try to be more specific. For example, I generally dislike single ended tube designs but my main audio system is built around Audio Research tubes which I love.

This is an example of the end points of the tube sonic spectrum. There is far more variation in tube sound than solid state sound. Classic McIntosh is somewhere in between. I find that romance with the Mac name and look drives most Mac lovers. I like the classic sound and look but the classic sound is not my first choice. I am not familiar with the newer Mac equipment so I can't comment on the sound.

Your generalized question seems to assume that the stereotyped soft tube sound (classic McIntosh) characterizes all tube equipment. Take one listen to Audio Research and you will discover the error in your thinking.

Sparky

[jim777]

I found that B&W sounds great with the McIntosh MC275 tube amp (rated 75W, more close to 100W for the current make IV). I have 703's but never tried a tube amp with them... But if the MC275 can drive N802's and 802D's to sonic nirvana, they should be able to drive 703's.

[mselescu]

Sorry, MC is not McIntosh(sorry again).

Pre/amp is Mexing(Ming Da) MC34-A, chinese new production tube component:

http://www.meixingaudio.com/ENGLISH/products/mc34-a.htm

I use MC34-A like tube pre-amp + power Primare A30.2 or like integrated amplifier with B&W 703(i like warm sound)..

[Karma]

HI,
How the hell would you expect us to know THAT????????????????????????????? Jeeze :evil: .

Sparky

[jim777]

HI,
How the hell would expect us to know that????????????????????????????? Jeeze :evil: .

Sparky

Google :B

[Karma]

HI JIm,
I'm glad you care enough to work that hard. I don't. I expect the poster to provide enough good information to make replies possible and reasonably easy. It's his responsibility, not mine. It makes me nuts and such posts happen all the time. Why would I search when a prefix like MC is a common McIntosh one. I was wrong. But so was he. Let's end this here. I'm sorry for my outburst.

Sparky

[mselescu]

Hi Karma and jim,

The producer Ming Da use this prefix MC (like McIntosh ops: ). What can I do ?

The pre/amp is 2x35W, class A, push pull, use 4xEL34-B, 2x12AU7 and 2x12AX7 tubes Shuguang (new Chinese production).

2x35W (tubes) is enough to drive B&W 703 or better SS amp like Primare A30.2 (2x120W/ 8 Ohm)?

Is better to drive B&W 703 with only tube components pre+power or with SS components pre+power(in this case I need an preamp SS – any suggestions?)?

Thanks for answer.

[jim777]

IMO the 703's sound great with McIntosh solid state, but I need to have 200W sometimes so did I have a choice...

[JohnAng]

I run my 703's now with a tube cd player and tube pre, but use a ss amplifier
the speakers have realy come to life with this setup. Will be trying some tube amps next to see if it makes any further improvement

http://members.optusnet.com.au/ppiart/sys1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/ppiart/sys2.jpg

[dknightd]

Since you already have the 35w tube amp, and the 120w ss amp, why don't you try both and see which you like better. I'm not familiar with either amp so can not predict how they might perform. In fact, since you also have biwire speaker cables, you might try using the tube amp for the high end, and the ss amp for the bass.
Some tube amps don't work well with speakers with low impedance, and the 703 drop below 4 ohm in much of the midbass region - have you asked the amplifiers opinion on wether it would work well with your speakers? He/she is probably more familiar with the amp than we are. Actually, I think tube for mids and highs, and ss for bass, might work really well (and you have everything you need except perhaps some rca splitters)

[jim777]

I run my 703's now with a tube cd player and tube pre, but use a ss amplifier
the speakers have realy come to life with this setup. Will be trying some tube amps next to see if it makes any further improvement

http://members.optusnet.com.au/ppiart/sys1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/ppiart/sys2.jpg

Very nice! Do you use the sub for stereo music playback (or only for movies)?

[JohnAng]

i use it for music and movies

[Karma]

HI John,
I have owned and used two different tube/SS hybred systems. One was a tube Audio Research pre with a Levinson SS power amp and then a Levinson SS pre and an Audio Research power amp. I have also used systems with all tubes (Audio Research) and all SS (Levinson and others). I admit that this represents a very small sample of manufacturers but both are top drawer. Since I owned all this equipment at the same time I could experiment and play to my hearts content.

I have concluded that SS and tubes should not be mixed as attactive as it may look on paper. The sonic signatures are sufficiently different that they don't synergistically add up to enhance each others strong points. Rather, I ended up with a stew of sound where the wonderful character of each was lost.

I don't even like to mix different manufacturers equipment. I have made one exception. In my main music system, the subwoofer amp is a Levinson Model 23. I can't ignore the gutsy, stable power (400W/chan into 4 ohms) provided by the Levinson which is ideal for driving power hungary subs. Because the sub crosses over at 67Hz, the solid state sound does not intrude into the mid range at all. The pre and main speaker power amps are Audio Research tubes.

BTW, just to show that I am not a Tube Nazi, my HT system is built around Krell. But, to be honest, I do prefer SOME tube gear to all the solid state amps that I have heard. I do not prefer the stereotypical classic tube sound that others seem to think represents ALL tube sound.

At the very high end, one buys a designers sonic philosophy. I think it is best to decide which sound you prefer and then go with that sound. Don't make it an undifferentiated stew.

Just my thoughts and experience on the question.

Sparky

[mselescu]

Hi all,

Apologies for delay, i was in summer holiday.

My tube amp is impossible to use in bi-amp mode(have not pre out/main in), have only one switch for preamplifier mode or integrated amplifier.

I use for 703's two combinations:

1. tube integrated amplifier 2x35w/8 Ohm, bi-wiring with Cu cables 2,5mm section Monitor Cobra(warm sound especially with pick-up source),

or

2. tube preamp, SS power Primare A30.2 2x120w/8 Ohm, bi-wiring with Cu cables Wireworld Equinox 5 for bass and CuAg cables Oehlbach Silver for mid+high(especially with valve tube cd player).

My tube amp have two output impedance: 4 Ohm and 8 Ohm. I use 8 Ohm output for 703's.

Is true 703's drop below 4 ohm(have sensitivity 90dB at 2,83V,1m and normal impedance 8 Ohm, minimum 3 Ohm), but with maximum half power, speakers fill the room(aprox 35mp) with music.

I love both combinations, especially first with verry warm sound.

This is my experience.

P.S.
In future i want change chines lamp with EH or JJ Tesla(i hope to improve sound musicality ).

[Briz vegas]

As of yesterday I am using a Conrad Johnson PV14 tube pre. Just the ticket for excellent 2 channel sound.

JohnAng, what are they asking for the Droplet in Aus? Unfortunately they don't seem to sell them in Brisbane so I have not been able to hear that player. Looks very interesting.

[dyazdani]

I've haven't heard many combinations on 7 series B&Ws, but I've heard quite a lot of gear through N802s that I used to have.

I started with all tubes - a Sonic Frontiers Line 2 and Power 3 amps. The sound was fine, not overly warm as tubes sometimes get stereotyped as being. I then switched to a Levinson 39 (SS) CDp driving the Power 3s directly. This was an upgrade in detail over the previous CDp (Sonic Frontiers SFCD-1). Finally, I switched the amp to a Levinson 333. The last was the best combination to my ears, more punch, more detail, and still smooth enough to be non-fatiguing.

I agree with what Sparky said about all tube equipment not being created equal. You won't necessarily find that all tube gear sounds one way while all SS gear sounds another. Each piece has its own character and you have the find the best combination FOR YOU. You can mix tube and SS as well.

My dad has a BAT VK-50SE (tube) pre-amp and a Pass X250 (SS) amp with N802s. It is a very sweet combination.

[JohnAng]

As of yesterday I am using a Conrad Johnson PV14 tube pre. Just the ticket for excellent 2 channel sound.

JohnAng, what are they asking for the Droplet in Aus? Unfortunately they don't seem to sell them in Brisbane so I have not been able to hear that player. Looks very interesting.

it sells for $2950 without volume control or $3200 with volume control
I got it from osborne speakers and all his products come with a 30 day money back guarentee if you are not 100% satisfied with it

[mselescu]

Thanks all for opinions.

All combinations: tube + B&W or SS + B&W or mix tube and SS + B&W have an common factor = B&W speakers.

Conclusion: we love B&W.