B&W 805s or 703 as mains?

[nick.h]

Hi,

Im putting together my new system and becuase of price have to choose between 800/700 series:

805s $5,000.00
805s $5,000.00
HTM3s $4,500.00
$14,500.00

or

703 $5,700.00
705 $2,500.00
HTM7 $1,500.00
$9,700.00

Are the 805s going to be better sounding then the 703?

At a later stage Im going to add a new subwoofer. Just gonig to use my dual 10" by aaron for the moment.

[csuzor]

I recommend
703
704 (mch music) or 705 (HT only)
HTM3s
as the best value for money, assuming you will be using the system for music too. (for HT only, 4x 805 + HTM4S + 825 is best).

Avoid the HTM7 with the 703, you can only be dissapointed. See other threads on this topic.

The 805 is too small for music, and adding a sub disjoins the stereo image. The FST of the 703 is much clearer mid-range.

Add a 750 later for HT.

[Joey_V]

Agree... the 703 has a far better midrange driver and in combination with its well designed bass capabilities, I think the 703 is a better speaker for 2 channel than the 805.

[jim777]

I agree 100% with csuzor. We would need more details on what you want to do with the system to get the best answer. Is your priority in movies or stereo sound quality? That changes everything

[Karma]

HI All,
Must disagree with the 703 lovers. Excluding low bass, the 805S is a far better speaker. True they must be used with a good sub (or subs) for fully satisfying bass.

As for disjointed bass, it depends on how skillfull you are at setting up the system and the sub that is used. I would bet that you would not be able to detect a "disjoint" in my system. I chose my subs (I have two ASW800's) specifically for their ability to integrate with the 805S not because they were also B&W. And the bass is excellent, deep and strong, for all applications.

So, like so many generalizations, disjointed bass is wrong. Sorry.

Sparky

[jim777]

Sparky,

Is your sub connected between your pre and your amp to control what frequencies are sent to the main speakers? What is the cut-off frequency?

Thanks

[Karma]

HI jim,
MY subwoofers comprise a separate subsystem. They must be considered based upon whether we are discussing stereo music (my highest priority) or HT.

First, I will talk about the subwoofer subsystem. I designed and built a subwoofer switching system (uses relays) that changes the signal path depending on the system mode. This is controlled automatically using the trigger signals from my Krell preamp and my Denon 3805 HT receiver. The switch box also incorporates a subwoofer volume control which is remotely controlled from my Pronto remote. For HT the path is from the LFE output from the receiver, through the switchbox (and volume control) to the stereo subs. BTW, the subs are always handled as though they were stereo in spite of the LFE channel being a mono signal. I split the LFE before it gets into the switchbox.

I always run the 805S's full range whether for music or HT. For HT, the main channels set are to cutoff at 45Hz by the receiver. This is below the 805S low frequency cutoff. I do it to keep the extremely high level HT bass signals from turning my 805S bass drivers inside out. If the low signals were not a danger to the 805S's I would eliminate the low frequency filter completely. I hate high pass filters.

I use the foam bass plugs in the 805S ports. This gives a smoother 805S bass alignment more resembling acoustic suspension than bass reflex. It also causes the 805S bass to loose a little of its lowest extension. I do this because it allows a more transparent overlap from the mains to the subs. I make up for the loss with the subwoofers internal filter and level settings.

The subwoofer internal cutoff is set at 45Hz. Understand that these numbers represent the 3dB point on the roll off curve and not a brick wall. The subs will radiate above 45Hz but at increasingly lower levels as frequency increases. The main point here is the overlap between the mains and the subs, both frequency and level, is critical to an undetectable and transparent main/sub interface.

For music, the Denon receiver is not powered up at all. Its power amps are used only for the surround channels and are not needed for stereo music. L, R, and center (for HT) are always powered by my Krell 3250 three channel power amp. This case is detected by the switchbox and automatically switches the subwoofer inputs to the output of the Krell preamp which is receiving its audio from the output of my tube DAC which, in turn is driven from the coax PCM output from my Denon 3910 disk player. In this case, the audio is full frequency. The subs filter setting remains the same. I can adjust the subs volume using the switchbox remote volume control. This is very nice because the bass mix on CD's varies quite a bit from disk to disk and even within a given disk.

As you can see, your simple question has a complicated answer in the context of my system. I went to all this trouble to optimize the 805S and subwoofer integration and to provide the best situation for HT and music playback independent of each other. Mostly, I have succeeded.

Sparky

[tboooe]

I think it all depends on what you are after. From my experiences, the 805S (which I owned) is more refined and smooth than the 703 or 705. The entire 7 series sounds more aggressive to me and not as smooth. It is as if it was meant more for rock music and HT. So if you are after more of an HT setup I would get the 7 series, if music is more your thing, I would get the 805 and save up for the sub later which is required for HT.

[jim777]

Sparky, that is a very nice setup you made. I appreciate your answer, it is clear, not complicated to me, since you detailed everything pretty well (and this hobby isn't too far from my work).

I just don't know if it is a "standard" solution that can be recommended to anybody, but I'm sure that it does wonders for you!

Have fun!!

[Karma]

HI jim,
Thanks for you nice words. The subwoofer switchbox and its remote volume control is very nice but it is not essential for the 805S and subwoofer integration. The essential part, I think, is the selection of the ASW800's which make a transparent integration possible.

The key is to select the mains and the subs with integration in mind from the very first. I have had subwoofers in my various systems for over 30 years. I have made mistakes and learned what is important.

Also, I have always liked the basic idea of mini monitors mounted on good stands as the basis for a good speaker system. With the right ones, imaging can be world class. They image well because they are small and offer less opportunity for diffraction effects. But, since I am a bass lover, subs become an essential part of the equation. Thus, selecting them together is the only thing that makes sense.

In a large room, the floorstanders are best. They have the power handling capability that monitors cannot match. So, I created my system with the intended room size very much in mind. I did not select an 805S system to save money. I can afford the larger speakers. Rather, I created this system to be the best compromise (all systems are compromises) in the space I had to deal with.

My 805S/ASW800 combo system out performs the bass of ANY of the B&W floorstanders without subs. I know others will disagree but then they haven't heard my system. We have had this discussion before. My view is the 805S's are world class monitors with incredible imaging potential. The ASW800's, or any of the larger B&W subs, in the right room space, will exceed the 800's or even the 801's bass performance.

My system is certainly not a budget system. Unfortunately, most folks who buy the 805S speakers do so with the idea of upgrading. Consequently, they do not put world class amplification on them and cable them properly. For that matter, they do not go into room treatment in a serious way. My attitude was to buy the best monitor type system I could find, drive them with the best electronics I could afford, and sonically treat the room as if I were installing $20,000 speakers.

I could definitely spend more money, and probably will, on various system upgrades but the speakers will stay. I'm very happy with them.

But, as good as the 805S/ASW800 combo is, they cannot compete with my main stereo system which is based on Martin Logan CLSIIA electrostatic's, Audio Research tube amplification and Kinnergetic's 800 subs. That system sets a very high bar but it is also in a larger room.

Sparky