Mark Levinson 400's for driving 802D's

[misterdoggy]

I was curious if anyone has done some serious listening comparison between these 4 amps 432 433 434 and 436. I have the 433 and 432 and although the 432 is more powerful I am experimenting with the 433 running my front L&R 802D's and I might be crazy but the sound might be more refined.

The techs at Levinson seem to think the sound of the 434 and 433 is nicer than the 432 unless of course your speaker load demands more power.

The 432 2 x 400 watts and the 433 at 200 watts a channel. Its funny, when I switched amps and ran them thru the processor to readjust levels as now a 200 watt amplifier was driving the 802D's instead of the 400 watt amp, the gain adjustment was almost nothing !!

This means the 802D's can be driven very easily indeed. So all of you searching for more power to driver your speakers, will find that 802D's can be driven easily.

I think this would probably not be the case for 800D's so I'll keep the 432 around just in case

Any experiences out there ?

[kurtholz]

Misterdodgy

being the selfless, caring, wonderful man that i am, ( sainthood candidate no doubt), i think the true answer lies in a complete objective long term study of your 432's, i will take them from you and give you my impression based on a 5 - 10 year extensive scientific study based solely on my uncanny abilities to distinguish the smallest difference in sound quality.

normally i am paid vast sums for these services, but , i am a giving selfless kinda guy

no reply needed as i am sure you are overwhelmed with gratitude at my offer to listen to those bad boys for you

:-)

kind regards

Kurt
Editor & chief the Holz Audio report & advisor
issue 1 available spring of 2020

:-)

[misterdoggy]

Kurtholz

Gee thanks for the offer !!!

Send me your address and I'll send it right out

Just make sure to send me postcards keeping me updated

[misterdoggy]

Kurt,

I visited your website. Very Cool

I've been practising martial Arts all my life. Started with Kung Fu in the 60's, swords and other weapons. As I got older I switched to Tai Chi of which I practice when-ever I can. I am "advanced" and could teach if I wanted to. I have some swords "damascus hand forged etc" Tai Chi straight sword.

You website is very nice with obvious quality in mind. Congatulations.

best
Bruce

ps Tai Chi with light music in the backround pushed thru on a 432 is just the right thing. Maybe I won't send you the 432 on second thought :T

[VictorHRS]

Misterdoggy,

As I've told you before, I'm planning on buying the ML No. 432 in a while, but I haven't had the chance to listen to it yet. I find it interesting your opinion about the amps, as I might as well downsize and go with the smaller and cheaper 431.

You say that the Levinson tech's find that the 433 sounds better than the 432? Were did you get this information from? Was it from their customer support?

As for adjusting the levels, it should be the same within a same line of amplifiers that are designed to be mixed together. It's a matter of amp gain, not amp power. Of course that imbalance will surface at very high listening levels, but at regular ones, what matters is amp gain, which is 29db for all 400 Levinson amp if I'm recalling correctly.

Best regards,

Victor

[misterdoggy]

Hi Victor,

Yeah actually I called the techs up and we were talking as I had read in some forum that someone actually preferred the 434's to the 432 sound.

I asked them and the fellow didn't say the sound was bad out of the 432, but did say that the 434 and 433's were Gems and that I should try hooking up the fronts with the 433 to see if I like it better than the 432.

I've got the 433 hooked up and it sounds great. I might be hearing things, but there might be a little more delicate detail, especially at lower listening dbs.

In any case, dedepending on your speaker load, and if its a 802 or less 200 watts of Mark Levinson 400 power will be plenty.

I cannot verify this would be so for the 434's which are monaural and rated at 125 watts a channel for driving an 802D.

Nor can I verify that the 431 you were talking about which is 200 watts a channel could drive an 801 or 800, but no problema for 802D's cause its what I'm doing and it sounds great.

[kurtholz]

So

let's get back to the important part, which sword do you want off my cheesy site, and when do i get the amp, i am just leaping out of my skin to help you,

hahahhah

seriously,thanks for the comments, Japanese swords tend to become very addictive, more so than Hi-fi, and way more expensive, and so much to learn, amazing art form that has evolved over a 1000 year period

Chinese swords are actually hard to find, especially the better quality, the Japanese were very prolific in there production, so nice pieces can be had for a fair amount of money

let us know long term how the levinson issue unfolds, have you thought about bi-amping using them both?

regards

Kurt

[LikeCoiledSteel]

I've been practising martial Arts all my life. Started with Kung Fu in the 60's, swords and other weapons. As I got older I switched to Tai Chi of which I practice when-ever I can. I am "advanced" and could teach if I wanted to. I have some swords "damascus hand forged etc" Tai Chi straight sword.

Hi Mister Doggy,
What style of Kung Fu did you practice? I used to study Choy Lay Fut, Tiger Claw and a little Wing Chun.
Steel

[Kal Rubinson]

The 432 2 x 400 watts and the 433 at 200 watts a channel. Its funny, when I switched amps and ran them thru the processor to readjust levels as now a 200 watt amplifier was driving the 802D's instead of the 400 watt amp, the gain adjustment was almost nothing !!

There may be no gain differences despite the power differences. OTOH, the difference between 400W and 200W is only 3dB.

Kal (who uses either 200W or 500w per 802D)

[misterdoggy]

Hi Mister Doggy,
What style of Kung Fu did you practice? I used to study Choy Lay Fut, Tiger Claw and a little Wing Chun.
Steel

Black Tiger Claw, Praying Manthis, and various other styles. I studied in Chinatown New York in 1966 before the Bruce Lee Movies came out and made it popular. I was the only Caucasian in the class.

It seemed the Chinese took class at the time like an after school obligation kinda like your dad did this now you do it and your sons will do it.

Eventually injured both wrists and had to stop. Hooked up with Tai Chi and been doing it ever since. Yangjia Michuan Taiji Quan (Yang Family).

When you are young (18) you get in to fights, but when you are older confrontations are rarely physical unless you're a brute. I mean since I was 21 the amount of times I confronted someone physically were next to nil. One time a guy pushed my wife when she was on roller blades and I lost my head because she could have really been hurt, otherwise unless its protecting my family no need to fight

So Tai Chi became the point. Kung Fu and Tai Chi are brothers except Tai Chi takes 10 years to become a master. Kung Fu can be done maybe in 4 or 5. Karate in 2. There is much more work in Tai Chi in breathing techniques, meditation, movements and the form 1100 movements are long and difficult to really master.

Don't get Tai Chi wrong, Tai Chi masters used to roam China challenging all the other systems to fight and there were a couple of great Tai Chi Boxers that kicked evrybodys butt, so it is a martial art firstly.

You can do it, slow, fast, meditative, or hard. It can be done all your life. I'm 58 and in pretty good shape and owe it to Tai Chi and bicycle ... ;x(

[misterdoggy]

There may be no gain differences despite the power differences. OTOH, the difference between 400W and 200W is only 3dB.

Kal (who uses either 200W or 500w per 802D)

This is interesting, because when I swapped Amps, the 802D's being driven by the 432 400 watt amp at 75 dbs, now being driven by the 433 200 watt amplifier only dropped 1 dbs to 74.

The 804S' being driven by the 433 200 watt amp at 75 dbs when switched to the 432 400 watt amp went 1 dbs up to 76 dbs.

I can't be sure, but I could swear there is a more delicate sound coming out of the 433 200 watt amp on the 802D's than the 432 400 watt amp that preceded it.

Bottom line the 802D's are efficient indeed and 200 watts was plenty. That is 200 Mark Levinson watts.

[misterdoggy]

So

let's get back to the important part, which sword do you want off my cheesy site, and when do i get the amp, i am just leaping out of my skin to help you,

hahahhah

seriously,thanks for the comments, Japanese swords tend to become very addictive, more so than Hi-fi, and way more expensive, and so much to learn, amazing art form that has evolved over a 1000 year period

Chinese swords are actually hard to find, especially the better quality, the Japanese were very prolific in there production, so nice pieces can be had for a fair amount of money

let us know long term how the levinson issue unfolds, have you thought about bi-amping using them both?

regards

Kurt

Kurt,

You must have enjoyed the movie "Highlander" with his ancient Japanese sword given to him by Sean Connery and the girl friend who was the sword collector.

Yeah right, give me a break, they found chips of the sword in the conrete.

I love all the Japanese stories, and have many of the books the one of the guy who had 60 sword battles and was a great warrior who never lost. He said it was not because of his technique, but his mind.

Also all the movies "Ran" and "Hidden Castle" by Kurosawa great stuff.

You have to be careful as the chinese are selling so many fake swords on ebay, coming up with a real one is rare.

Back to Speakers, I don't have enough Amps to biAmp the speakers, but the sound is so sweet with just the 200 watt Mark Levinson, that I'm very happy.

I mean if the system blows you away everytime you crank it up, you might just have arrived.

[Kal Rubinson]

This is interesting, because when I swapped Amps, the 802D's being driven by the 432 400 watt amp at 75 dbs, now being driven by the 433 200 watt amplifier only dropped 1 dbs to 74.

The 804S' being driven by the 433 200 watt amp at 75 dbs when switched to the 432 400 watt amp went 1 dbs up to 76 dbs.

I can't be sure, but I could swear there is a more delicate sound coming out of the 433 200 watt amp on the 802D's than the 432 400 watt amp that preceded it.

Bottom line the 802D's are efficient indeed and 200 watts was plenty. That is 200 Mark Levinson watts.

Your experiment proves nothing about the speakers efficiency since the output of both amps with the same source is the same because they have the same gain. All it shows is that both are capable of that output level.

Kal

[LikeCoiledSteel]

Kung Fu

Black Tiger Claw, Praying Manthis, and various other styles. I studied in Chinatown New York in 1966 before the Bruce Lee Movies came out and made it popular. I was the only Caucasian in the class.

It seemed the Chinese took class at the time like an after school obligation kinda like your dad did this now you do it and your sons will do it.

Eventually injured both wrists and had to stop. Hooked up with Tai Chi and been doing it ever since. Yangjia Michuan Taiji Quan (Yang Family).

When you are young (18) you get in to fights, but when you are older confrontations are rarely physical unless you're a brute. I mean since I was 21 the amount of times I confronted someone physically were next to nil. One time a guy pushed my wife when she was on roller blades and I lost my head because she could have really been hurt, otherwise unless its protecting my family no need to fight

So Tai Chi became the point. Kung Fu and Tai Chi are brothers except Tai Chi takes 10 years to become a master. Kung Fu can be done maybe in 4 or 5. Karate in 2. There is much more work in Tai Chi in breathing techniques, meditation, movements and the form 1100 movements are long and difficult to really master.

Don't get Tai Chi wrong, Tai Chi masters used to roam China challenging all the other systems to fight and there were a couple of great Tai Chi Boxers that kicked evrybodys butt, so it is a martial art firstly.

You can do it, slow, fast, meditative, or hard. It can be done all your life. I'm 58 and in pretty good shape and owe it to Tai Chi and bicycle ... ;x(

Hi Bruce,
It sounds like you have as much a passion for the martial arts as audio, very cool. I used to study Black Tiger Claw for a little while-Fu Jow Pai I think it was called. There is a school near me that does that and Tai Chi. A lot of people think Tai Chi is just an excercise, but they do not realize that it is one of the most lethal and effective martial art. When practicing martial arts was outlawed in China by one of the dynasties, martial arts went underground and Tai Chi was made to look as a harmless excercise to appease the authorities. It became one of the most advanced of styles.

I like Choy Lay Fut the best because it is a broader style, mixing the north and southern China styles together. The Wing Chun style is very internal with less footwork. Bruce Lee adapted this style to form Jeet Kune Do.

I have followed Kung Fu for many years, longer than I practiced but still love it the best. Chinese martial arts are the most beautiful and impressive to me. Japanese martial arts are to mechanical for my tastes.

I am 32 and want to get back into it when I find the time.
Best Regards,
Jeremy

[misterdoggy]

Hi Bruce,
It sounds like you have as much a passion for the martial arts as audio, very cool. I used to study Black Tiger Claw for a little while-Fu Jow Pai I think it was called. There is a school near me that does that and Tai Chi. A lot of people think Tai Chi is just an excercise, but they do not realize that it is one of the most lethal and effective martial art. When practicing martial arts was outlawed in China by one of the dynasties, martial arts went underground and Tai Chi was made to look as a harmless excercise to appease the authorities. It became one of the most advanced of styles.

I like Choy Lay Fut the best because it is a broader style, mixing the north and southern China styles together. The Wing Chun style is very internal with less footwork. Bruce Lee adapted this style to form Jeet Kune Do.

I have followed Kung Fu for many years, longer than I practiced but still love it the best. Chinese martial arts are the most beautiful and impressive to me. Japanese martial arts are to mechanical for my tastes.

I am 32 and want to get back into it when I find the time.
Best Regards,
Jeremy

Jeremy,

At 32 Tai Chi would take you untill you were 42 to master. A faster moviing style of Tai Chi is Wushu and its very beautiful. You can practice hard or soft. When you are a little old guy soft is the only way you can, but at least you are still practising if you know what I mean.

I do Tai Chi listening to Chopin and I'm GONE ;x(

I come out of it like in the Zone. If somebody messes with me I "could" be dangerous, but In the Zone more likely to be passive.

[Karma]

HI doggy,
Over the years my practice of yoga has taught me to mentally focus. To my way if thinking, both jazz and classical music requires just this approach for full enjoyment and understanding. In fact, I went through a phase were I would not listen to serious music without a preparation routine similar to meditation.

It goes without saying that I always listen to music with closed eyes, live or recorded. By doing so, one can shut out distractions and focus single pointed on just our ears and the auditory sensations. This starts a subroutine that allows full immersion into the musical ideas.

Of course, if I am critically listening to an equipment demo, I use another subroutine to evaluate the physical sound. Full immersion does not make for good critical listening. But great sound does make full immersion easy.

Sparky

[misterdoggy]

Sparky

Yoga meditation and Tai Chi Approach each other. I have many friends who have been practising for years and years in Hawaii. Sun Salutations on the beach at 5 am and all.

Breathing techniques in both are the key

I listen to classical when I'm practising taiji chuan or nothing.

I listen to Beethoven when I'm playing chess online.

I listen to Reggae when I'm in a partying mood or want to be uplifted.

I read a report that said classical music was the most stressful music of them all. When you think about it, it is too general a statement as there is soo much relaxing classical music ie: debussy etc, but there is a lot of stressful classical music that could make you bite your nails ie: Liszt, or hours of bach could render one crazy.

[WI Rotel]

Hi Bruce,
It sounds like you have as much a passion for the martial arts as audio, very cool. I used to study Black Tiger Claw for a little while-Fu Jow Pai I think it was called. There is a school near me that does that and Tai Chi. A lot of people think Tai Chi is just an excercise, but they do not realize that it is one of the most lethal and effective martial art. When practicing martial arts was outlawed in China by one of the dynasties, martial arts went underground and Tai Chi was made to look as a harmless excercise to appease the authorities. It became one of the most advanced of styles.

I like Choy Lay Fut the best because it is a broader style, mixing the north and southern China styles together. The Wing Chun style is very internal with less footwork. Bruce Lee adapted this style to form Jeet Kune Do.

I have followed Kung Fu for many years, longer than I practiced but still love it the best. Chinese martial arts are the most beautiful and impressive to me. Japanese martial arts are to mechanical for my tastes.

I am 32 and want to get back into it when I find the time.
Best Regards,
Jeremy

I too practice the most lethal form of the martial arts!

I have an M4 variant of the M16 :rofl:. It is a proven effective adversary against all other martial disciplines, meditation is not required and it easily disposes of the highest dan zen master in the world. :B If that should fail I also keep a .40cal sigpro with integrated laser sight on my side. The sight of the laser dot on his chest usually makes most martial artist crap their pants instantly! :a> :demon:

[misterdoggy]

:T If everybody threw away their guns and went home there wouldn't be any wars :T

I mean, imagine they "threw a war" and nobody showed up

[LikeCoiledSteel]

I too practice the most lethal form of the martial arts!

I have an M4 variant of the M16 :rofl:. It is a proven effective adversary against all other martial disciplines, meditation is not required and it easily disposes of the highest dan zen master in the world. :B If that should fail I also keep a .40cal sigpro with integrated laser sight on my side. The sight of the laser dot on his chest usually makes most martial artist crap their pants instantly! :a> :demon:

LOL,
A gun is effective as long as you can hit your target and have enough ammo. Once your are unarmed, the martial artist has the upper hand. Now that being said, I would rather be an armed martial artist if the situation called on it.

For that kind of party, I would bring the kung fu skills as backup to my AK47 and Streetsweeper automatic shotguns.
All in good fun of course.
Steel

[misterdoggy]

My Gun is longer than your gun

[misterdoggy]

Whats next on the Forum ?

I've competed with Ithaca Perazzi's, owned PPK's, colt Commander nickel plated with rubber grips and light action trigger and hammer, all types of Guns....

But I've lived in Europe for some 25 years and nobody has guns here, except the few that hunt Wild Boar. America is a "Gun" Culture Club.

Break in to my house and I'll blow you away.......

Tuff talk, but when it comes time to pull the trigger, DO YOU HAVE THE B--LS

Talk the talk or what......

This is how wars all start. One guy gets a gun, so the neighbor gets a bigger gun, and his neighbor buys a canon, until everybody has got missles aimed at everybody else.

I'm gonna go meditate now.........

[WI Rotel]

Whats next on the Forum ?

I've competed with Ithaca Perazzi's, owned PPK's, colt Commander nickel plated with rubber grips and light action trigger and hammer, all types of Guns....

But I've lived in Europe for some 25 years and nobody has guns here, except the few that hunt Wild Boar. America is a "Gun" Culture Club.

Break in to my house and I'll blow you away.......

Tuff talk, but when it comes time to pull the trigger, DO YOU HAVE THE B--LS

Talk the talk or what......

This is how wars all start. One guy gets a gun, so the neighbor gets a bigger gun, and his neighbor buys a canon, until everybody has got missles aimed at everybody else.

I'm gonna go meditate now.........

See, WI does have some advantages over Annecy I live in the northwoods and as you can imagine most people around here have more guns than most Taliban :B. Of course, that's only a partial list for me I didn't mention my "hunting" guns :E I'm an old warrior now but I'm still a fan of the marksmanship aspect, That damn Y chromosome is evil you know :rollhead:

[sikoniko]

I practiced akido for a year. I really enjoyed it. I will get back into it when I have more time. Nothing like practicing with a group of people and using one of them to throw into the rest! steven seigal gave it a bad name though... he rarely actually did any real moves, mostly holyhood stuff.

[gerardhn]

any levinson news?

[misterdoggy]

Just bought a pair of 436 MonoBloc Levinson's

Well you won't believe it, but first I switched my front 2 speakers to the 433 (3 x 200 watts) and felt the sound was better than the 432 (2 x 400 watts) and relegated the 432 to the surrounds (804S) which is overkill.

Feeling bad about wasting the 432 I put it up for sale (on Audiogon) and bought myelf a pair of 436 (1 x 350 watts) Mono's which should be here in a couple of weeks.

So I will be driviing the 802D's with the 436's and the center and surrounds with the 433.

I will let you know how it sounds but this could be it. ;x(

[Peter Nielsen]

Hi Bruce,

How do you feel the Levinson 432/433 compares to the Krell KAV 2250/3250 combo that you used in the past?

Also, it's my undestanding that the 431/432/433 run pretty cool compared to Parasound's A21/A51/JC1. Is this correct?

As you may have noticed, I sold my nine JC1s because I could not stand the heat these amps output. I'm looking for a cooler running solution. The TacT Boz 216/2200 or PS Audio GCA-MC-500 are on the top of my lists when it comes to cool running digital amps. However, a Levinson 431/432/433 combo might also be great. Has anybody here got experience with these amps?

Thanks,
Peter

[misterdoggy]

Hi Peter,

Wow, I was always impressed when I thought of you and your line up of JV1's. It must have been a warm room

Well the 2250/3250 aren't in the same league as the 431/432/433. You could compare the Krell fpb-cx series to the 400's.

IMHO the Mark Levinson sound is more laid back, smooth while the krell has more 'punch'. I prefer smooth. It really suits my listening tastes.

On the heating issue, I have heard the JC1's run quite hot. The 3250/2250 probably runs less hot than the JC1's, but the larger FPB400CX was like an additional radiator in the house. It wasn't that it was hot, but that it was very very warm, but its shear size made a dent in the room temperature.

The 400 Levinson's don't heat up at all and its a pleasure. They are more compact than the older 300's series, less hot and more efficient.

I would highly recommend them, especially the 434, 436 and 433 models.

I don't know the other amps you mentioned and have never given them a listen.

best
Bruce

[VictorHRS]

Misterdoggy,

I was almost sure on buying a 432, but now you made me think again, and maybe I'll go for the 433. Also a friend of mine is selling a 336, have you had the opportunity to listen to it? Some said that the 436 is basically a 336 divided and rack mountable.

Regards,

Victor

[misterdoggy]

Victor,

I'm selling my 432 for 6400 euros as its 230v with 4 1/2 years on the guarantee. I can't comment about the 336, but as always recommend the newer machine which will keep their value better.

note: although my choice for sound leaned towards the 433 over the 432, It is a very very very close call.

[gerardhn]

i just saw your 432 on audiomarkt for less.
for that prize .....

[misterdoggy]

i just saw your 432 on audiomarkt for less.
for that prize .....

Yeah when I made that post is was 6400 euros and now I'm down to 5500 Euros to get it to move. Best offer I've had so far is 5000 euros.

[georgev]

336 vs 400series

I compared the new 400 series to my 336 and I must say "to my ears" the 336 sounds better. Some "say" that the new 400 series is a "rebadged" proceed(no slouch in itself), but that aside I think there are many who feel that Mark levinson took a step backwards with the new 400 series(by no means a bad amp.). I certainly enjoyed my 336 more when I did a comparison.
Regards,
George

[gerardhn]

misterdoggy

i wished I kwew everthing you would buy and sell in the future......

[VictorHRS]

Interesting info, George! :T

I certainly do like better the looks of the 336, but in Brazil is hard to find a good one. And they seem to be of high maintanence, due to a capacitor leakage that might occur with input voltage variations. Because of that, confirmed to me by some technicians, I'll go for the 400 series. It also helps that german magazine Audio has rated the 432 better than the 336, 125 vs. 120 points. So it is certainly no slouch.

[misterdoggy]

I compared the new 400 series to my 336 and I must say "to my ears" the 336 sounds better. Some "say" that the new 400 series is a "rebadged" proceed(no slouch in itself), but that aside I think there are many who feel that Mark levinson took a step backwards with the new 400 series(by no means a bad amp.). I certainly enjoyed my 336 more when I did a comparison.
Regards,
George

George,

Mark Levinson's sales are way way up and its a reflection that they are doing something better and something right. They are not on the way down, but on the way further up.

I've ordered the 390S CD player and its so successful that there are 150 pieces backordered just to a few dealers in Europe "already sold".

The 400 machines are superior to the 300 machines. Of course thats talking about the 436 mono's.

[VictorHRS]

Misterdoggy,

Sales volume is not an indicative of comparative quality, you should know that :T Levinson's sales might be way up due to other factors than the 400 series being "better" than the 300 series. these factors might be better distribution, pricing, sales and many other things, such as product design. Sure the 400 amps are more consumer and custom instalation friendly. Just some thoughts. Not that I prefer the 300 series, which isn't the case.

And here are some links you might want to check out:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/mark-levinson-433-436-power-amplifiers-9-2006-part-1.html

Your 433 and 436 reviewed by Secret's. Very nice, and they show with measurements why the 436 offers slightly better performance than the 433. And still we have to hear that amps sound the same, measure the same under light conditions, blablablabla.... :roll:

And here is a very nice review by the same site of the 326S, another one I have my eye on:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/mark-levinson-326s-preamplifier-7-2006-part-1.html

Enjoy! :T

[misterdoggy]

VictorHRS,

I probably agree that sales of products dont equate to quality, but in the high end when things of equal value......

People like you and me listen and buy and end up with something. When chosing between krell and Mark Levinson, I prefered Mark Levinson.

They're sales did suffer for a while and I think it had to do with what was going on inside the company, but that seems to have improved and new products have come out that are great and the result is people are buying.

So in a way sales do reflect a certain success at improving quality when you consider the competition.

[georgev]

George,

Mark Levinson's sales are way way up and its a reflection that they are doing something better and something right. They are not on the way down, but on the way further up.

I've ordered the 390S CD player and its so successful that there are 150 pieces backordered just to a few dealers in Europe "already sold".

The 400 machines are superior to the 300 machines. Of course thats talking about the 436 mono's.

Sales being up may not be a reflection on quality but on quite a few other issues. Greater sales does not equate to better quality.
The 390S is a great CD Proccessor, is it as good as the No. 31.5 coupled to the No. 30.6dac, or even to the No. 360s dac? I think not( as do most people), however these are discontinued reference products.
Your categoric statement that the 400series is better, is your opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to as I am to mine. The 336 is comparable to the 33halves and the 33's, will you say that the 436 monos are better than those?
Do yourself a favour and compare the two.
In the review of the 336, by audiorevolution, they mentioned that a mono version of the 336 was coming out(?the 436).
I still think that you have bought a great amp. in the 436, but better than the previous 300series................. not sure.
My 0.02cents worth.
George.

[misterdoggy]

Sales being up may not be a reflection on quality but on quite a few other issues. Greater sales does not equate to better quality.
The 390S is a great CD Proccessor, is it as good as the No. 31.5 coupled to the No. 30.6dac, or even to the No. 360s dac? I think not( as do most people), however these are discontinued reference products.
Your categoric statement that the 400series is better, is your opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to as I am to mine. The 336 is comparable to the 33halves and the 33's, will you say that the 436 monos are better than those?
Do yourself a favour and compare the two.
In the review of the 336, by audiorevolution, they mentioned that a mono version of the 336 was coming out(?the 436).
I still think that you have bought a great amp. in the 436, but better than the previous 300series................. not sure.
My 0.02cents worth.
George.

George,

The 33H are probably the best Amps built to date, as posted by many. All the reviews point to the 400's being better than the 300's.

Isn't it alway the way it is. The new product comes out and everyone defends the last models. "They don't make em the way the used to way back when" everyone says, and we can go back to the the original models as the best ever made.

Then 20 years from now, they will be referring to the 400's as when they used to make em good.

I'm playing the 436 now and its the "best" Amp I've owned to date. Now I'm thinking about a pair of 800D's to go with them.

[georgev]

That sounds great. The 800d's are fantastic. Enjoy.
About "They don't make em like they used to" or "like my Grandaddy used to", it's not always the case. Many factors come into play.
After Mark Levinson himself left Madrigal and they were bought over by Harman, quite e few things changed, not all good. The focus was more on the other products like Lexicon(fantastic product), than Mark Levinson. The discontinuance of products like the 31.5 and so, are evidence of this. Don't be taken in by marketing hype that newer is always better.
But we digress, the 436 is a great amp. and will drive your 802's brilliantly, enjoy.
You might need to passively bi amp the 800d's though, with a pair of 436's each, or your 432's for the Higher frequencies and the 436's for the lower.
Enjoy.

[misterdoggy]

You might need to passively bi amp the 800d's though, with a pair of 436's each, or your 432's for the Higher frequencies and the 436's for the lower.
Enjoy.

This will not happen. If I jump to the 800D's the 436's will have to do

Next step would be a new house to have the proper room......... ;x(

[Indytown]

Misterdoggy, how do you like the Heimdalls?

[misterdoggy]

Misterdoggy, how do you like the Heimdalls?

Heimdall interconnects are traditional round not the flat wire and the speaker wire is heavier than the REd Dawns.

I noticed more of an improvement with the speaker wire.

I like them

[Indytown]

Heimdall interconnects are traditional round not the flat wire and the speaker wire is heavier than the REd Dawns.

I noticed more of an improvement with the speaker wire.

I like them

Thanks