The Beasts are Here 2 x 436's

[misterdoggy]

Well 2 Mark Levinson 436 Mono Amps have arrived !! The 3rd Amp is a Mark Levinson 433 (3 x 200 watts)

Getter closer........ to the end of my search ;x( ;x( ;x(

[ShadowZA]

Superb, Misterdoggy :T

As we are moving towards summer, you are moving towards winter. The perfect excuse to stay indoors & enjoy. :P

[misterdoggy]

Like the bears, I plan on hibernating in the cozy, right in front of that system

It gets Cold up here in the French Alpes and dreary......

[gerardhn]

misterdoggy,

vous etes une bete (you are an animal)....

btw: are you content with the spikes?

[misterdoggy]

misterdoggy,

vous etes une bete (you are an animal)....

btw: are you content with the spikes?

At first I wanted the spikes, and wanted to do anything to have them, now I hate the spikes and would never have them or put them on a speaker again.

I can't tell you how many scrapes scratches and holes they have caused in my wooded floors.

Never being happy with the setup and always moving the speakers either for new additions, wiring or just plain playing with the position, the spikes have spike cups that usually glide or slide on the wooden floor.

The problem is the floor can be uneven and when sliding one of the legs shortens and can come out of its cup and boom 100+ lbs of pressure on a very sharp spike on a very soft wood floor Ouch......

What a pleasure the rollers were before, so easy to move and then you could put them on plastic little squares so they sit flat.

I'm not really sure of the benefits. Its like everyone says its better, so you do it. Kinda like biwiring.

[Indytown]

Well 2 Mark Levinson 436 Mono Amps have arrived !! The 3rd Amp is a Mark Levinson 433 (3 x 200 watts)

Getter closer........ to the end of my search ;x( ;x( ;x(

Very nice.

I think what is going to happen is the synergy of all the ML components is going to make the 2 channel fantastic.

[gerardhn]

the spikes are also visually very present...

[audioqueso]

Getter closer........ to the end of my search ;x( ;x( ;x(

We've all heard that before. :B

If by any chance you're just throwing away your other amps, I'll be more than happy to help you out with that 'trash'. :B :B :B

[misterdoggy]

We've all heard that before. :B

If by any chance you're just throwing away your other amps, I'll be more than happy to help you out with that 'trash'. :B :B :B

The garbage man just passed. ?

Maybe thats why he looked so happy :E

[WI Rotel]

Beautiful indeed.
Mr. D you have to do something about the geometry. For stereo it should be fine, but for HT or audio surround that center should be "centered" . I hope that doesn't take major decor rearrangement thus leading to spousal displeasure, BTW I also love Lugano, another favorite spot from the ol' army days :B

[misterdoggy]

WIRotel,

Yeah its a wee bit off center but you don't notice it really, voices from the center and its wide enough where the sound stage moves around.
I'm not that crazy about HT but am about Stereo. Next life maybe.

[D-bucket]

...Getter closer........ to the end of my search ...

Way to go & truly outstanding indeed! :T

But after passing the "Superb", "Very Nice", "Beautiful" marker given above, what else is left? Well, maybe just a little satire in good humor: :lol:

Supernova (Soo-per-noh-vuh) - the explosion of a star, possibly caused by gravitational collapse, during which the star's luminosity increases by as much as 20 magnitudes and most of the star's mass is blown away at very high velocity, sometimes leaving behind an extremely dense core.

Peter Principle - the theory that employees within an organization will advance to their highest level of competence and then be promoted to and remain at a level at which they are incompetent.

Law of Diminishing Returns - any rate of profit, production, benefits, etc., that beyond a certain point fails to increase proportionately with added investment, effort, or skill.

But have no fear, no matter how illusive any future improvements are for your system, they would have to be quite amazing to top the quality of your present one with todays technology. And I would imagine that from this point on it, would be quite exilarating to achieve even small improvements without having to spend a fortune.

...you have to do something about the geometry. For stereo it should be fine, but for HT or audio surround that center should be "centered" ....

Yes, but I'd take that asymmetric ht setup with his components over a perfectly symmetric ht set with different components anyday.

[PavelL]

Getter closer........ to the end of my search

Oh come on! Don't quit so early! The game has just begun! Looks like you havn't tried biamping yet :lol:

[misterdoggy]

Oh come on! Don't quit so early! The game has just begun! Looks like you havn't tried biamping yet :lol:

The only thing left is 800D's....... ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x(

[georgev]

And bi-amping, first passive and then active.
Congrats.

[DavidB]

WIRotel,

Yeah its a wee bit off center but you don't notice it really, voices from the center and its wide enough where the sound stage moves around.
I'm not that crazy about HT but am about Stereo. Next life maybe.

My set up is also off centre but to a much greater degree than yours. My 802D's are maybe 12ft apart, my TV with HTM2D is to one side of that and it actually works pretty well too. I still get the surround sound effect as that is mainly driven by the 802D's and my DS8's. It's difficult to have it any other way as I also have a fireplace along that wall and my house is 100 years old so I'm not moving that!

[misterdoggy]

Gotta work with what you got

[DrBoom]

For misterdoggy and all others who want spikes without the hassle, you should try Soundcare Superspikes.
They come in several versions, ranging from $47 for the basic model (4 pieces) which I have, through the bling-bling "High end" version at $182 (same thing but with transparant housing and gold plated) up to a staggering $1900 for 3 pieces of the Titanium Extreme version ;x(
For B&W's you need the M6 threaded version, fits great and you can move speakers around as much as you like without losing the disk. You may have to re-level them but that's all.
I have them under my 804s and sub.

http://www.soundcare.no/

[misterdoggy]

I will probably go back to the rollers at some point (no pun intended) or better yet I've been contemplating 800D's

[caleb]

Mr Doggy,
If you dont waht your spikes - let me know and I'll make you an offer for them.

I need to put spikes on my new 800s now that Ihave found the "ideal" location for them.

PM me with a price if you decide not to use them.

[misterdoggy]

Mr Doggy,
If you dont waht your spikes - let me know and I'll make you an offer for them.

I need to put spikes on my new 800s now that Ihave found the "ideal" location for them.

PM me with a price if you decide not to use them.

will do, but would probably sell tghe speakers better with them.

[SRT-10 Viper]

Review???

Ok Misterdoggy, You've had the 436s long enough... How about a review? For what it's worth, I went from 802Ns (Now in rear) to 800Ds. Great move.

[Aldo]

WOW! I love the Marks! does are one of the best building quality amps I ever saw and hear! Congratulations!

[misterdoggy]

Ok Misterdoggy, You've had the 436s long enough... How about a review? For what it's worth, I went from 802Ns (Now in rear) to 800Ds. Great move.

I'm thinkin about the same move......

They are great, subtle difference between the 432 and the 436's, the 436 have more depth and more mid range a little more detail. Overall I prefer the sound to the 432 which has been sold....

I'm taking delivery of a 390s Mark Levinson Cd player and I think this will make everything shine. The Ayre D1Xe is a top quality CD/DVD player bbut a dedicated top of the line CD player should be even better.

I'll let you know.

Viper How do you feel about the switch to 800D's. Of course it would not be the same for me as I would be moving from 802Ds to 800Ds less of a stretch than the move of N802s to 800Ds. More subtle. But they must be great ....

[Aldo]

Do you have a Subwoofer? The reason I ask is because these: I put my subwoofer between my 800 not as a subwoofer but through the L/R input and output of the ASW855 using the subs cross over, The diference was incredible, not just in the bass but in the soundstage with a lot more depth! I also have a pair of 802 wich I use as rears and the diference of sound between the 800 and 802 came just from the bass part wich you solve with the sub.
Think about these: it's like having the great bass of a 801 but with the convenience of placing the sub where ever you want! No matter what B&W tells you there is no way two 12" bass drivers make the depth sound of a 15" and if you complement them......Well imagin!
I now order another sub for bass separation......

[misterdoggy]

The reason I ask is because these: I put my subwoofer between my 800 not as a subwoofer but through the L/R input and output of the ASW855 using the subs cross over

Aldo,

I'm not sure I follow. through the L/R input output

Also what are the 2 speakers doing between the 802D's (rear speaker assignment)

does a Screen come down.


Sweet Setup.........

[Aldo]

Yes, You take the Main Left and Right outpusts from your receiver and input them both in the sub, the sub has also a Left and Right outputs wich filter the bass signal and send the freq. lets say 80hz and up to the main amplifier!
My screen came out from the ceiling, so the two speakers you saw are the 6th and 7th chanels, the woofer I'm talking about is not the one near does 2 a/d/s towers but the one between the HTM1D and the 800s on the front wall!
What I do is leaving the back sub for LFE and the front one as a bass extention for the fronts, a common setup even with the original (snail) nautilus!
Now my intentions are to add other sub at the front right where the Krell amp is for bass separation with music CD's.

[misterdoggy]

Aldo

You mean the main outputs Left and Right go to the Left and right input of the sub woofer and then out of the Left and right outputs of the subwoofer to the left and right speakers. ? Hmmmmm

So this can be used in just Stereo 2 channel mode and have the benefit of the sub woofer rather than a 2.1 setup.

The only problem I have is the cable to the Left and Right speaker is $1100 and that would mean another set of cables just to try it out ??

[Aldo]

Right but from the sub woofer Left and right out to the Left and right inpust of you Mark Amp!
And if you are buying $1000usd RCAs, yes it will cost you that, but you can try with a decent Monster cable for 200 adn believe me you are not going to regret!
What cables are you using?
And another benefit is that the bass is not exagerarted by you LFE output with is not originally made to deliver Bass on stereo sourcess!

[misterdoggy]

Aldo,

I posted this before. Here is my schematic. Is the Sub going in the Stereo and HT left and right then ? Right now I only use the sub for HT not Stereo listening.

[RebelMan]

Do you have a Subwoofer? The reason I ask is because these: I put my subwoofer between my 800 not as a subwoofer but through the L/R input and output of the ASW855 using the subs cross over, The diference was incredible, not just in the bass but in the soundstage with a lot more depth!

This is the proper way to integrate a pair of B&W 800 Series subs into a two-channel system. Nicely done Aldo and may I add that is an EXTREMELY nice setup you have there. :T

[RebelMan]

You mean the main outputs Left and Right go to the Left and right input of the sub woofer and then out of the Left and right outputs of the subwoofer to the left and right speakers. ? Hmmmmm

So this can be used in just Stereo 2 channel mode and have the benefit of the sub woofer rather than a 2.1 setup.

You left out the part that includes the amplifier, but I suspect it was implicited stated. So what you will have is source -> pre-amplifier -> subwoofer(s) -> amplifier -> speakers.

[misterdoggy]

out from the preamp to the Sub back to the Amp and out to the speakers

do I understand right ?

what settings do you put the sub at then

lastly how does that affect the ht in this kind of configuration

[RebelMan]

No, you need to use the line-level outputs from the pre to the sub to the amps, THEN you use the speaker cables from the amps to the speakers. Then you use the crossover settings in your sub to manage bass.

[misterdoggy]

line level meaning rca left and right main outputs or something else

[RebelMan]

Exactly.

[misterdoggy]

So by having the left and right line outputs from the preamp the Subwoofer becomes a normal speaker and how do you set the sub at in terms of crossover etc

[Aldo]

You are going to use exactly the same output from your Lexicon that you are using now, just unplug the Amplifiers and send does same cables to the Subwoofer input.
Your subwoofer have a Right and left outputs.. now send two RCAs from the subwofer to your amplifiers inputs, and you are done! (use the Line out) not the Link out on your sub)
Tip: Put your Subwoofer level to Cero volume and then experiment the right volume to match your speakers. I would start cross overing it at 100htz and remember to put the LOW PASS FILTER switch on your sub to IN, wich means that the cross over will be made by the subwoofer!

[misterdoggy]

I use the preamp to the Amp

The lexicon is bypass to the preamp

[Aldo]

Right!

[misterdoggy]

doesn't that degrade the signal passing thru the sub an additional detour

[RebelMan]

what settings do you put the sub at then

This step can be somewhat invloving and the solution is not a one size fits all answer so some assumptions will be made. Assuming you have found the proper location for you sub(s) (a whole other process) you first have to determine if the subs will be acting in phase or out of phase with the main speakers and you need to make that setting on the sub first. Then level the volume control, i.e. set it so that it faces straight up. Next determine which EQ setting you prefer A is primarily for music and B is primarily for movies. Then set the LOW-PASS filter switch IN.

Inititally adjust the LOW-PASS FREQUENCY control to the point where the sub crosses over to the speaker's low frequency roll-off point that measures 0db. The 802D specifications state -3dB at 34Hz so I would probably start at 40Hz on the sub. Then you can either fine tune the crossover setting by ear or use test tones and record and plot the response. After you are satisfied with the crossover point use the volume control to adjust (correct) imbalances.

lastly how does that affect the ht in this kind of configuration

If you are using the HT passthrough feature of your pre, then the only thing left for you to do is to set the L and R to LARGE on the processor and DISABLE the sub. All bass and LFE will be re-directed to the sub for bass management. Maintain the settings for the center and surrounds.

[misterdoggy]

This step can be somewhat invloving and the solution is not a one size fits all answer so some assumptions will be made. Assuming you have found the proper location for you sub(s) (a whole other process) you first have to determine if the subs will be acting in phase or out of phase with the main speakers and you need to make that setting on the sub first. Then level the volume control, i.e. set it so that it faces straight up. Next determine which EQ setting you prefer A is primarily for music and B is primarily for movies. Then set the LOW-PASS filter switch IN.

Inititally adjust the LOW-PASS FREQUENCY control to the point where the sub crosses over to the speaker's low frequency roll-off point that measures 0db. The 802D specifications state -3dB at 34Hz so I would probably start at 40HZ on the sub. Then you can either fine tune the crossover setting by ear or use test tones and record and plot the response. After you are satisfied with the crossover point use the volume control to adjust (correct) imbalances.

If you are using the HT passthrough feature of your pre, then the only thing left for you to do is to set the L and R to LARGE on the processor and DISABLE the sub. All bass and LFE will be re-directed to the sub for bass management. Maintain the settings for the center and surrounds.

Very Cool ...... A whole new dimension to think about

What about the long run of rca cables to and from the sub. Isn't there going to be a degradation of the signal havein got travel 4 or 5 feet in 2 directions. All my interconnects are 1m long for the moment

[RebelMan]

doesn't that degrade the signal passing thru the sub an additional detour

Unlikely, but possible. Assuming high-quality interconnects, no. In return for 2CH you minimize the potential for bass interference, you'll achieve a flatter response and you'll extend the low frequencies. And for HT you bypass the additional crossover in the processor reducing distortion.

[Aldo]

Rebelman... you certainly know what you are talking about, what made me place the sub there after 2 years was that I bought a Velodyne Digital driver and the microphone help me to determine that the flatest responce I could obtain was right in the center of the room! If misterdoggy is going to leave the woofer on the back, for stereo, I do not know how the imaging will be even though the bass is omnidirectional, I'm not shure.... For stereo I would prefer it enywhere in the front, and if he as we can see have a believe in cables, It's not a good idea a 26foot cable!